I have always had great success with teaching the out when starting with a young dog. I am currently working a 2 year old GSD male that has a very high drive and when he is tugging on the tug, retrieving the ball, aggression work on the sleeve he takes his time to out, usually after 7 or so commands. Another local handler advised that his Mal. was the same way, and he corrected it within a week with an e-collar...Whats the good and bad of doing it with the E.? My dog is a harder dog that doesnt cower or get scared of anything. He has tremendous drive with aggression and play, but need to certify in a few weeks, and want a long term fix.