[sable123]

Ha.... haha. Ok, now I get it.

If you want to be believe dogs are designed to digest corn, and that they ACTUALLY gain anything from eating it, then you go right on ahead believing. I don't need a peer reviewed studdy to tell my dog is a CARNIVORE, with the digestive tract of a CARNIVORE, designed to process meat, not corn or grains.

Dogs have survived thousands of years WITHOUT processed corn meals and glutens in their diets. The very fact that the corn absolutely MUST be cooked in order for them to gain anything at all from it, is proof enough of that. I don't see many wild dogs cooking their food, but maybe I'm missing out on something here.

I'll stick to raw, thanks, minus the corn. I suggest anyone else feeding their dog, kibble or otherwise, do the same.

This person did not ask for advice on raw feeding, rather a recommendation on a dry food.

So my advise to the original poster is find a food where a protein meal is the first ingredient and since you are asking about a dry food because a source of starch must be used to make it, one with corn or a combination of rice and corn. I like 30/20's because they can be used througout the life of the dog and have lower levels of total carbohydrate.





Your suggestions are 100% incorrect. Dogs are in fact designed to digest whatever is available. Whether its meat, bone, wild grains, fruit and vegetables.

 

[atravis]

Just because they CAN, does not mean they SHOULD.

Dogs can eat sawdust too, doesn't mean they should

 

[sable123]

Just because they CAN, does not mean they SHOULD.

Dogs can eat sawdust too, doesn't mean they should

You read too much propaganda by Steve Brown & Tom Lonsdale. Zoos & rescue organizations use regular commercial kibbles for wolves & foxes and they thrive on them, actually they live much longer than most companion animals.

 

[atravis]

I read no propaganda, never heard of either of the people you mentioned, though I would LOVE to see studies showing that captive wolves liver BETTER, HEALTHIER lives on corn-inclusive kibbles.

Longevity means nothing to me. Unless studies have ALSO been done on feeding appropriately balanced cooked and raw diets, as well as grain-free, corn-free diets, then the results they get from feeding corn-inclusive foods means nothing. All it does is prove that dogs/wolves/whatever can survive on such foods. Which I'm not debating they can't.

BUT, for many people, myself included, simply "surviving" is NOT the same thing as thriving.

 

[roxy84]

You read too much propaganda by Steve Brown & Tom Lonsdale. Zoos & rescue organizations use regular commercial kibbles for wolves & foxes and they thrive on them, actually they live much longer than most companion animals.

yes, dog food can maintain captive wolves, just as many humans can be maintained by food that is less than ideal. what this passage fails to disclose is the biggest reason kibble is used to maintain wolves in zoos. i am friends with a couple people who used to work at Brookfield Zoo outside of chicago. while they agree raw diets are more natural and healthy, they also admit the realities of the tight budgets facing zoos necessitates the use of commercially prepared foods whenever possible.
the kibble bought in bulk is many, many times cheaper than buying/preparing/storing a biologically appropriate diet.


the reason they live longer has nothing to do with eating commercial kibble. it has to do with the availability of veterinary care and environmental controls, things they do not get in the wild.

give them those advantages plus biologically appropriate meals and it would be amazing how long they could live.............but as stated above it is not economically feasible for zoos to do this.

here is an example of a common feed used at zoos for Wolves:

Mazuri Canine Exotic Diet (zoos buy this stuff for around $22-$25 per 33 lbs)

http://www.mazuri.com/PDF/5MN2.pdf

here are the first 10 ingredients:
ground corn, poultry by product meal, ground brown rice, corn gluten meal, porcine animal fat preserved with BHA, poultry fat preserved with ethoxyquin, porcine meat meal, brewers dried yeast, dried beet pulp, ground soybean hulls.......

 

[roxy84]

Your suggestions are 100% incorrect. Dogs are in fact designed to digest whatever is available. Whether its meat, bone, wild grains, fruit and vegetables.

wolves wont even eat the stomach contents of their herbivore prey (which of course contain grains, fruit, and vegetables) unless they are nearing starvation

The following quotations are taken from L. David Mech's 2003 book Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation. Mech (and the others who contributed to this book) is considered the world's leading wolf biologist, and this book is a compilation of 350 collective years of research, experiments, and careful field observations. These quotes are taken from chapter 4, The Wolf as a Carnivore.

"Wolves usually tear into the body cavity of large prey and...consume the larger internal organs, such as lungs, heart, and liver. The large rumen [, which is one of the main stomach chambers in large ruminant herbivores,]...is usually punctured during removal and its contents spilled. The vegetation in the intestinal tract is of no interest to the wolves, but the stomach lining and intestinal wall are consumed, and their contents further strewn about the kill site." (pg.123, emphasis added)

"To grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system."

 

[sable123]

Wolves eat whatever is around. They also eat tons of nuts, especially pine nuts in the fall. There is virtually nothing a wolf won't eat if it is around.

That is evolution for you.

 

[GROVEBEAUTY]

We feed Solid Gold and have had good results.

 

[rjvamp]

You read too much propaganda by Steve Brown & Tom Lonsdale. Zoos & rescue organizations use regular commercial kibbles for wolves & foxes and they thrive on them, actually they live much longer than most companion animals.

I would not call Tom Lonsdale propaganda. After all, he loses money in his vet practice because he points out that truth that if you feed Raw Meaty Bones and Offal you will have better health by not having periodontal disease. I tend to believe someone who has something to lose because he tells the truth about his patients health and is concerned with ROOT CAUSE vs. someone who has something to gain (i.e. pet food companies, vets that sell pet food, etc....).

Any kibble food will require the pet owner to have their dog's teeth cleaned at some point - maybe not every year as some kibble is better than others it seems.

While I'm not 100% raw just due to my own convenience, I do ensure my dogs are getting Raw Meaty Bones weekly to ensure their teeth are properly scrubbed and they are getting what mother nature intended. They also love their Green Tripe and Chicken hearts.

Some good sources of information on RAW from Dr. Lonsdale's view via the Doggy Bytes Blog:

Tips: Dr. Tom Lonsdale on Feeding Raw Meaty Bones

and how to feed your modified house wolf

Dr. Tom Lonsdale on Feeding Your Modified House Wolf

and there is other great information on

Raw Dog Ranch - Welcome!

Whether kibble or raw, just remember good periodontal health is essential to over all good health.

 

[roxy84]

YouTube - Wolves eating berries!

Wolves eat whatever is around. They also eat tons of nuts, especially pine nuts in the fall. There is virtually nothing a wolf won't eat if it is around.

That is evolution for you.

sure, they will eat them when there is a shortage of what they need.

i could post videos of tons of kids pigging out at mc donalds...it doesnt mean that what somone or something willl eat is what if good for them or needed, biologically speaking.

 

[rjvamp]

I'd rather be a wolf at one of these places:

**** Van Patten's Natural BalanceZoological Formulas™

Audubon Bird of Prey Center, Mastland, FL
Big Cat Rescue, Tampa, FL
Brockett's Film Fauna, Thousand Oaks, CA
Brookfield Zoo, Brookfield, IL
Fund for Animals, San Diego, CA
Lincoln Park Zoo, Chicago, IL
Living Desert, Palm Desert, CA
Michael Jackson's Neverland Valley Ranch, Los Olivos, CA
Milwaukee County Zoo, Milwaukee, WI
Moorpark College, Moorpark, CA
Point Defiance Zoo & Aquarium, Tacoma, WA
Rosamund Gifford Zoo, Syracuse, NY
San Diego Wild Animal Park, San Diego, CA
San Diego Zoo, San Diego, CA
Santa Ana Zoo, Santa Ana, CA
Sea World, Orlando, FL (meat-eating Birds)
Sea World, San Diego, CA (Polar Bears)
Seneca Park Zoo, Rochester, NY
Serengeti Ranch Co., Ventura, CA
Siegfried and Roy, Las Vegas, NV
Staten Island Zoo, Staten Island, NY
Tippi Hedren's Shambala Preserve, Acton, CA
Toledo Zoo, Toledo, OH
University of California (kestral facility), Davis, CA

They get some good grub!

**** Van Patten's Natural BalanceZoological Formulas™ Carnivore 5

Beef, Beef Hearts, Beet Pulp, Tricalcium Phosphate, Ground Whole Flaxseed, Sodium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Biotin, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Menadione Dimethyl-Pyrimidinol Bisulfite, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamin Mononitrate, Manganese Sulfate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.

Back to Orig. Poster -

Each situation with food is different. And each situation with dogs are different. Do what is best for your dog, your budget and your situation - be happy with your new puppy and CONGRATS!!!!!!

 

[julieandty]

Can someone please help? I have a german shepherd dog, he's now 10 years old. He keeps developing pyoderma (skin condition), he has arthritis in his hips, and he now seems to have constant diohorea. Can anyone advise best food for him please?

 

[barnyard]

Can someone please help? I have a german shepherd dog, he's now 10 years old. He keeps developing pyoderma (skin condition), he has arthritis in his hips, and he now seems to have constant diohorea. Can anyone advise best food for him please?

What is he on now? Have you changed the diet recently? Is he on medicine for the skin condition.

I don't know much about pyoderma, though with one of my dogs we are dealing with a food allergy. If the diarrhea is constant and you haven't changed food, you could be dealing with all sorts of different things - parasites, allergies, etc. I think a vet visit would be in order to rule out any problems. You might need to add a probiotic, etc if your dog was on antibiotics. Pumpkin is another good addition to help firm up stools, but get your pup checked out first.
I wouldn't add other supplements for arthritis, etc. until his tummy recovers, though once he is better, I would add joint meds in. It's hard to recommend food since I don't know what he is on, and what your budget it, but you might want to look at changing proteins. So if he is on a chicken based diet, change to a good fish based food, for instance. You might also want to look at a more simple formula to help with his tummy. There are lots of good brands out there. I'm currently using Nature's Domain for one of my dogs and my foster, and just started Farmina Cod for my allergy prone pup. Some other good foods, depending on budget, include Fromm, Acana/Orijen, Dr Tim's, Wellness, Victor, etc.