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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering if anyone knows where I could find a clicker with multiple sounds. I have seen Karen Pryor's Clicker+, and I was not too impressed. I am looking for something that has TWO completely different sounds.

Any suggestions? Has anyone made anything similar to a clicker that emits two distinct sounds?

Thanks!
 

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I haven't seen anything like that. I'm curious though - what would be the purpose of two sounds since the click signifies the instant a job is well done. I'm always ready to learn something new.
 

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Ok...My Master's thesis is regarding different types of conditioned responses. The clicker represents a secondary condtioner, for short, it signifies a positive reinforcement (i.e. a food reward). My theory is that two sounds can can signify both positive and negative reinforcement. (Before everyone gets upset, negative reinforcement means the ABSENCE of a reward, NOT punishment). Therefore, one sound would indicate the same thing as a click from a clicker. The second sound would be the same as saying "nope" or "uh-uh"
without the emotion that can be conveyed with your voice.

Ideally, one would be able to accurately communicate with the dog which behaviors were "good", and which were "bad."

Just so there are no confusions, negative reinforcement means that the dog is NOT rewarded. It does not mean that the dog is punished. This has been a big source of confusion in my classes.

Hopes this helps!
 

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Interesting! Someone on another dog board got a clicker with different sounds (might have been the Karen Pryor one, don't recall) because she had multiple dogs and wanted to use a unique sound marker for each. In theory, each dog would learn that only their own special click meant they'd earned a treat.
 

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While I understand you want the other sound to mean they did not do something right so will not be getting a reward.............. Doesn't clicker training already have the 'other' sound built in as the negative reinforcer (no treat).

Silence.

So the sound of 'click' means treat. The sound of silence means no treat.

And you may want to make sure of your terms (though I may be reading your post wrong, go figure
) as far as 'negative reinforcement'.

http://www.clickertraining.com/glossary/17#lettern

http://www.wagntrain.com/OC/Part2.htm#Rneg

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/primer.htm

If you still need a different sound, there are a bunch of different clickers on the market right now with entirely different sounds our dogs would soon figure out.
 

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I really like that idea. I use 'uh-uh' or 'wrong' for the negative marker, but it would be great to have that marker be as timely as the 'good job' marker.

I hope you find your clicker - let us know how this goes!
 

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Originally Posted By: WorkingK9sOk...My Master's thesis is regarding different types of conditioned responses. The clicker represents a secondary condtioner, for short, it signifies a positive reinforcement (i.e. a food reward). My theory is that two sounds can can signify both positive and negative reinforcement. (Before everyone gets upset, negative reinforcement means the ABSENCE of a reward, NOT punishment). Therefore, one sound would indicate the same thing as a click from a clicker. The second sound would be the same as saying "nope" or "uh-uh"
without the emotion that can be conveyed with your voice.

Ideally, one would be able to accurately communicate with the dog which behaviors were "good", and which were "bad."

Just so there are no confusions, negative reinforcement means that the dog is NOT rewarded. It does not mean that the dog is punished. This has been a big source of confusion in my classes.

Hopes this helps!
How would you go about teaching the negative reinforcement? I know with regular clicker training you just give a treat so would it be as simple as taking one away?

Sometimes I snap my fingers at mine when they are either doing something wrong or crossing the line to doing something wrong. Maybe you could use a snap as the other sound?
 

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Quote:I use 'uh-uh' or 'wrong' for the negative marker
When I am teaching a dog something new, I use the clicker for the positive marker and if not, they hear the uh-uh or wrong as quoted above. Some people use a different word or sound. When the dog hears the negative marker, thy know there will be no treat and the command will be tried again.

In this case, the OP explained that the regular click will be the positive marker and a different click will be used instead of the voice for the negative marker. Same principle.

My concern would be clicking the wrong sound and confusing the dog which could stall the training.

So you are correct - with the negative marker, whether voice of alternate click, there is no treat.
 

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Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLeeWhile I understand you want the other sound to mean they did not do something right so will not be getting a reward.............. Doesn't clicker training already have the 'other' sound built in as the negative reinforcer (no treat).

Silence.

So the sound of 'click' means treat. The sound of silence means no treat.
Ideally, but silence does not specifically indicate what was unwanted in a timely fashion.

Quote: And you may want to make sure of your terms (though I may be reading your post wrong, go figure
) as far as 'negative reinforcement'.

http://www.clickertraining.com/glossary/17#lettern

http://www.wagntrain.com/OC/Part2.htm#Rneg

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/primer.htm
This has been bothering me, and led me to spend the last few days doing a lot of research. After extensive discussions with my current professor, the use of a two toned clicker to indicate good and bad can fall into a lot of categories. The sound of the click only indicates the positive or negative reinforcement is available. Reinforcement is something that increases a behavior. Positive reinforcement increases a behavior by adding something to the sequence, (i.e. a treat for sitting to increase the sit behavior). Negative reinforcement increases a behavior by taking something away (i.e. taking the treat away when dog stands to increase sit behavior).

BUT... The action of taking the treat away can also be negative punishment. Punsihment is something that reduces a behavior. Positive punishment is something that is added to reduce a behavior (i.e. spraying cat with water when it jumps on counter to reduce behavior of jumping on counter). Nagative punishment is something that reduces behavior by taking something away, (i.e. take attention away when dog jumps to reduce jumping).

Depending on the wording or which behavior you chose to isolate, the action indicated by the "no" clicker can be negative reinforcement or punishment...very grey.

Quote:If you still need a different sound, there are a bunch of different clickers on the market right now with entirely different sounds our dogs would soon figure out.
I will look in to this and see what I can find...I might have to concoct something on my own.

Quote: How would you go about teaching the negative reinforcement? I know with regular clicker training you just give a treat so would it be as simple as taking one away?
It would most likely be the absence of a treat. We'll see though. I will let everyone know if I actually find a clicker like this though.
 
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