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Don Sullivan's method- when we started training, and my man and I were total novices- except for training horses,- so we got his CDs and the plastic mild prong. Inga was three months old then I think. It worked great for basic obedience and we did not become treat dispensers. He advises to have the dog work for praise and play. At about five months she started to make a little snarly face when asked to do a command and it was always when being asked to assume submissive positions, such as a down. This looked a little bit like the beginning of handler aggression to me. She is a German and Chek bloodline and has a hundred and sixty four schutzhunds in her lineage. They are mostly showlines but European sch had to be titled for biting people, and most importantly, stop biting people, in order to breed. Or maybe it was just a phase. Also she was the dominant pup in the litter, she shrugs off correction easily and is apparently rather hard. Anyway, discussing this directly Mr Sullivan he advised to use a cloth muzzle when working the down and go to the metal prong. This stopped her pulling But still, you had to have your hand near her face to correct the down when the muzzle is off. Calving season was about to begin. So I got the ecollar. Sure I was nervous about using it, I know you can ruin a dog with it if used incorrectly. I have no trainers out here to advise, I am the trainer. So studying its use by the maker of sportdog , it does not teach anything, it reinforces what they already know. But it did extinguish the snarly face and also barking at other dogs from the back of the truck immediately at a very low setting. I don't think she connects the correction with us. She does suddenly become very obedient as soon as it is put on and may be collar wise. I like that I can tone or vibrate to signal her at five hundred yards away. This is great for distance work. It can be also be used like a clicker to tell the dog that exact moment they did the desired behavior. I also like that I can give a size seven correction in case she takes off after a calf or a deer, which can get a dog run over by a car or shot dead. The collar can save their life. Anyway, now at her first birthday she knows thirty commands. I understand this is no big deal but I myself am very happy with her.
> up, enough barking, sit, down, stay, load up, off load, wait, jump, get it, bring it, kennel, off, out, NO, come, heel, get him, lets go, relax, stand, no bite, WHAT IS IT?- very important- check out possible threat out in the dark-, eat eat in German, find it, leave it, drag, crawl- such as under a row of chairs, and cross- such as a ten foot two by six across two platforms - and now another circus trick, jump through a hoop and into a tank of water. Also she knows the distant hand signals sit and down and stay an eighth of a mile away. Now she is learning to heel to a ridden horse at walk, trot and gallop.

What is an amazing breed are these GSDs. I have never known a dog like this. The breed to so responsive to training. I have had many dogs but she is my first real dog German Shepherd. Thanks for reading.
 

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Don Sullivan's method- when we started training, and my man and I were total novices- except for training horses,- so we got his CDs and the plastic mild prong. Inga was three months old then I think. It worked great for basic obedience and we did not become treat dispensers. He advises to have the dog work for praise and play. At about five months she started to make a little snarly face when asked to do a command and it was always when being asked to assume submissive positions, such as a down. This looked a little bit like the beginning of handler aggression to me. She is a German and Chek bloodline and has a hundred and sixty four schutzhunds in her lineage. They are mostly showlines but European sch had to be titled for biting people, and most importantly, stop biting people, in order to breed. Or maybe it was just a phase. Also she was the dominant pup in the litter, she shrugs off correction easily and is apparently rather hard. Anyway, discussing this directly Mr Sullivan he advised to use a cloth muzzle when working the down and go to the metal prong. This stopped her pulling But still, you had to have your hand near her face to correct the down when the muzzle is off. Calving season was about to begin. So I got the ecollar. Sure I was nervous about using it, I know you can ruin a dog with it if used incorrectly. I have no trainers out here to advise, I am the trainer. So studying its use by the maker of sportdog , it does not teach anything, it reinforces what they already know. But it did extinguish the snarly face and also barking at other dogs from the back of the truck immediately at a very low setting. I don't think she connects the correction with us. She does suddenly become very obedient as soon as it is put on and may be collar wise. I like that I can tone or vibrate to signal her at five hundred yards away. This is great for distance work. It can be also be used like a clicker to tell the dog that exact moment they did the desired behavior. I also like that I can give a size seven correction in case she takes off after a calf or a deer, which can get a dog run over by a car or shot dead. The collar can save their life. Anyway, now at her first birthday she knows thirty commands. I understand this is no big deal but I myself am very happy with her.
> up, enough barking, sit, down, stay, load up, off load, wait, jump, get it, bring it, kennel, off, out, NO, come, heel, get him, lets go, relax, stand, no bite, WHAT IS IT?- very important- check out possible threat out in the dark-, eat eat in German, find it, leave it, drag, crawl- such as under a row of chairs, and cross- such as a ten foot two by six across two platforms - and now another circus trick, jump through a hoop and into a tank of water. Also she knows the distant hand signals sit and down and stay an eighth of a mile away. Now she is learning to heel to a ridden horse at walk, trot and gallop.

What is an amazing breed are these GSDs. I have never known a dog like this. The breed to so responsive to training. I have had many dogs but she is my first real dog German Shepherd. Thanks for reading.
One hundred and sixty-four now? Wow. That's up from last time - people who have her relatives must be pretty serious about titling the dogs.

And she's a show line? I thought you said she was a WL. Either way, that's pretty impressive she knows thirty commands. I haven't counted what mine knows. She knows the basics, and I just talk to her a lot and she adds to her vocabulary that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I said mostly WGSL line. The checs were WL. Oh yea its only a hundred and fifty four Schutzhunds. Inga spilled water into my keyboard and now I have to type out numbers. What commands does your dog know? How did you train ? Does s/he know circus tricks?
 

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I said mostly WGSL line. The checs were WL. Oh yea its only a hundred and fifty four Schutzhunds. What commands does your dog know? How did you train ? Does s/he know circus tricks?
Oh, that would make sense. The Czechoslovakian lines would be working.

My dog knows the basics and then some things that I find useful in daily life. Circuses are a dying industry, so I have not placed priority on circus tricks.
 

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@Nurse Bishop I'm going to ask nicely again if I could please see your dog's pedigree. I know you thought I was being rude before, but I even checked with the mods and I was not rude. I have a genuine curiosity about the lineage your dog comes from. I am largely unfamiliar with WGSL dogs and their pedigrees, and your girl sounds amazing, so I would love to learn more about the dogs she descends from. I hope you don't have something against someone trying to learn things.
 

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But it is such fun.:grin2:

How do flolks teach their GSD to balance dogfood on their nose and then snatch it out of the air when told?
How do folks teach the Snake command?. Someone yells snake and the dog leaps into your arms. You have to be physically fit.
 

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She sounds like a great dog. I'm glad you're having such a good experience with her. GSDs sure are smart. I've never used an e-collar, but I would get one for Asher, if I had to have him off leash around livestock. He is MUCH too interested in the horses in our back pasture (they belong to our neighbor). He never has direct contact with them.
 

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@Nurse Bishop I'm going to ask nicely again if I could please see your dog's pedigree. I know you thought I was being rude before, but I even checked with the mods and I was not rude. I have a genuine curiosity about the lineage your dog comes from. I am largely unfamiliar with WGSL dogs and their pedigrees, and your girl sounds amazing, so I would love to learn more about the dogs she descends from. I hope you don't have something against someone trying to learn things.
I'd be interested in seeing her pedigree too, if you felt comfortable sharing, because I haven't been around very many dogs who are WL/SL crosses, and because I haven't seen much for Czech lines. I know one dog who is a WL/SL cross but I'm mostly around American show line dogs, so I just don't get exposure to German show/working line crosses.
 

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How do folks teach the Snake command?. Someone yells snake and the dog leaps into your arms. You have to be physically fit.
Or better yet......you yell snake....you jump into the air...and your dog catches you....now that would be a circus trick and a half.

Hey...what did you expect? GSD's are crazy smart dogs.....I'm glad you are enjoying your dog's intelligence .....it's a huge selling point for the breed and probably why there are so many devoted GSD owners who never contemplate getting a different breed once they have had one.

I guess I have never paid enough attention to pedigrees to see many eastern European WL and WGSL in the same pedigree......obviously they exist...so...yeah....it would be interesting to see your dog's pedigree.

Keep enjoying your dog's smarts.....they're impressive.


SuperG
 

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So true ... or spell them. That doesn't work, either. ;)
We use "W" for walks, but we have to kind of jumble the context so she doesn't figure it out. Daycare is "DC." Somehow she hasn't deciphered that one. I've taken to referring to the dog park as "the off leash recreational area for canines." The liquor store just gets referred to by its actual name and she has yet to make that connection.

The rest we are less careful about because the excitement level is more manageable, although if you ask her if she would like to go to Chuck and Don's she will full on march to the door and wait for you there.

But good lord, if you want to see my dog lose her mind, ask her if she'd like to go to the dog park, or the liquor store. We cannot drive past the liquor store without her deciding we must be going there and we will go to there and get treats please and thank you?
 

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I used to think that being a treat dispenser was 'bribing' your dog. When Compulsion didn't get me anywhere with an adopted dog, and only bred conflict, I gave up and went off to food/play reward dog training classes.

Oh boy! Did it open my eyes!!! I learned how dogs learn, and that training is supposed to be fun for both person and dog! I had a completely different dog by the end of that first class.

I shudder at the thought of putting a prong on a puppy, and making training so compulsive that your pup is now growling at you, and has to be muzzled. When done correctly, in a way that builds your relationship with the puppy as opposed to destroying it, pup should some running all excited and offer Obedience exercises without being asked, because they LOVE it!

I think Inga is a fine dog that she is still so trusting and willing to work with you after such a rocky start. But a year old, and already has gone through plastic and metal prong, and then e-collar? Oh boy!

We hear so much about how smart Inga is, I thought I'd look up her pedigree on the pedigree database (and she does sound very smart! I bet training her without all those gadgety collars would have been a breeze, and not brought out the fear and anger that got her growling at you).

I saw in your profile that her full registered name is Frauline "Inga" von Deutschland.
Is that her registered name? Is she registered at all? Because her name just translated to
"Miss Inga from Germany".
 

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I couldn't imagine training without using treats. I use treats to learn new behaviors and then we go to toys and praise to work and solidify behaviors. Seems a waste to not use every option available to train dogs. Play and bonding with your dog will ensure that the dog is working for you and not objects or food a lot better than withholding or not using all training options.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Admitantly, there are many ways to skin a cat, and there are many ways to train a dog. This is what I tried and it worked. This is the most amassing dog I have ever had in my life. I just got back from a ride on a thousand acres. She heeled to my knee. Deer jumped up but she did not critter. Good girl.
 

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One hundred and sixty-four now? Wow. That's up from last time - people who have her relatives must be pretty serious about titling the dogs.

And she's a show line? I thought you said she was a WL. Either way, that's pretty impressive she knows thirty commands. I haven't counted what mine knows. She knows the basics, and I just talk to her a lot and she adds to her vocabulary that way.
If it makes sense, Czech lines can also be show lines, being nothing but show lines bred in Czech by Czech breeders. I have seen the red and black Czech show lines.
 
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