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I've read through this site before when I was looking for collars online, and the part about hanging the dog till it passes out freaked me out. Then again, I've never seen the kind of dog he's describing as needing this. What is the consensus on this forum about his methods? Oh brother hope I don't start a war, but my gut reaction was that this was atrocious.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
A GSD trainer had mentioned this to me. She did advice reading how to use it.

This would be used on Gunner around other dogs. He is improving on his socializing but he still react around certain dogs. She mentioned how the prong could almost provoke him more.

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I've used something like it in a very specific context during training. I can't think of any application for a pet dog, so for me it depends on the context.
 

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How is it different from a regular choke chain?

It slides much smoother and faster. It is used differently than a choke chain. Instead of using "pops" its more of a slow constant movement up with your hand. Yes you can do that with a choke, but it doesn't get as tight as a dominant collar. That being said I have also seen the dominant collars break so... Like Lies said, I can't see too many people really needing one. Especially a pet dog (not a knock against pet dogs).
 

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Again, its a tool. It's not for every dog or every situation. Some dogs need it though.
Can you give an example and also why more gentler methods wouldn't have worked? It seems crazy to have dog almost pass out and call it training. Sounds like water boarding to me.
 

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I used this on a reactive young male when we started training in group classes. What it does is the dog self corrects himself immediately rather than the owner conciously making a correction after the action, much like a prong. But I found this better than a prong for this particular dog.

Anyway, while wearing this, if he tried to lunge at another dog, he immediately gets a self correction without me doing anything and he stops. It's a tool, like anything else. I haven't used it since that class since he's improved so much using a clicker.

Leerburg had the sizes messed up. I don't know if that has been fixed yet or not. But I ordered a 16" and the thing was 2 inches too big, because they measured only the length of the cord and didn't take into account the length of the buckle and rings. (and additional 2 inches)

ETA: I see somebody using it to make the dog pass out. I think that goes back to the Koehler training. I did NOT use it in that way.
 

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Can you give an example and also why more gentler methods wouldn't have worked? It seems crazy to have dog almost pass out and call it training. Sounds like water boarding to me.

"Gentler" methods don't always work. If you have a truly hard dog sometimes you need extremes. I will give an example of when I have seen it used. In the example you may also see why I can't see it used for pet obedience or anything like that.

We had a very civil dog I was working in a high state of drive and pressure on a bite suit. The dog was having some outing trouble so he had the collar on. Well in this case on the bite he would not out. Every other method was tried and dog would not out. Now remember while all this was going on the dog is crushing my arm in a suit. Actually this day the dog punctured the suit (I have the scars to prove it). Well using the dominate collar, the dog was choked off. The dog passed out before he would let go. We put him on the bite again and just used it to work the out. The dog now has a nice out. Now, dogs like this are very few and far between. The only other dog I have seen like him was his dad that had to use similar methods.

Another time, was a Older 80 pound lady handling a 100 pound GSD during protection. She had trouble controlling her dog so the collar was used. This particular dog didn't need much to get him under control, but it gave the handler just enough of an edge to maintain control of her dog. In this case the choke did not work either. In both cases the dogs were in a high state of drive.

Oh and the dog in my first scenario just took first place, high in trial and judges choice at this weekends trial. He outs beautifully now. His dad was a popular stud dog as well so.... Some dogs just need a little help to get started.
 

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It's the type of tool that you don't use if you don't know what it's for or how it's used. Not something you learn to use on the interenet.
 

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It's the type of tool that you don't use if you don't know what it's for or how it's used. Not something you learn to use on the interenet.
Why not? A good trainer will know exactly what to do with it.
 

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It's the type of tool that you don't use if you don't know what it's for or how it's used. Not something you learn to use on the interenet.
Thanks for explaining. The problem is that when it is available to everyone, it will get abused, just like the E-collars, "handy" at Petco's checkouts, before normal training was used.
 

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Can you give an example and also why more gentler methods wouldn't have worked?
The only time I've used this collar was a few sessions with Pan during protection work when he was leaking (screaming) drive. Giving collar pop type corrections (prong or other collar) just amps the dog up more. I won't really get into details, like Justine said it's just a tool, you can use it for the right things or not use it at all. IMO it actually is gentler than seen people constantly nagging or overcorrecting their dog with prong collars or e-collars and this only causing *more* leaking of drive. For 99% of GSDs I would guess there is no practical use for it. I hadn't used one before or since. Mine is just a piece of cord with a ring on one end, a ring that "floats" on the cord, and a snap on the other end, made it myself.
 

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How is it different from a regular choke chain?
There's really no difference other than a choke chain is usually made so it slips over the dog's head and these collars are typically made so that they can't be slipped over the head, there's a ring that "floats" along the cord. You wrap the cord around the neck, then fasten the snap to the floating ring and a ring or knot on the other end of the cord keeps it from coming apart. They are typically very thin, lightweight, most of the ones I've seen used including my own are just home made ones. I personally wouldn't buy one.
 

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I use something similar for a back up with a prong for really strong dogs. I wouldn't use it for corrections, it seems like it would burn if you used it to correct like a choke chain.

If you did choose to use it to cut off air I don't see why you have to wait until they pass out. I've had a prong break on a very large powerful dog who was lunging for another dog that surprised us. I had the back up on and I lifted his front feet off the ground spun around 90 degrees and walked the opposite direction. Once we weren't facing the other dog, he calmed and I could walk him away and work him at a better distance to get focus. The choke/spine was enough to distract him and get him to face away so I could calm him down. Aside from lifting a dog up that is trying to bite you (which I've seen also, on a prong though) or a quick lift and turn to get away from the situation I don't see much use for this. In the end you still have to work with the dog and its problems.


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