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Discussion Starter #21
Thanks for all the names. I've heard of a couple of them, and I'll look into the rest. I'll be needing some of the leash aggression stuff soon, as Kias is very reactive on leash when with other dogs.
 

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Tyler Muto for aggressive and reactive dogs, Larry Krohn for e-collar, Stonnie Dennis for general training and socialization, Kikopup and Zsains for tricks.

Then the big boys for seminars. Ivan Balabanov, Bart Bellon, Michael Ellis.
This. Only to add Chad Mackin, who someone else mentioned earlier. I tbink he is great and he has a ton of compassion and understanding for the dogs.

Also for books, I think there is some good theoretical information in books by Patricia McConnel although as a practical dog trainer I am not ao sure. But I find her books to be informative and entertaining although you have to always take with a grain of salt because she is in the anti punishment crowd.
 

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Thanks for all the names. I've heard of a couple of them, and I'll look into the rest. I'll be needing some of the leash aggression stuff soon, as Kias is very reactive on leash when with other dogs.
One other book recommendation then if you have a reactive dog is BAT by Grisha Stewart. Another anti punishment trainer, but still good stuff.

I think Tyler Muto does a nice job of kind of taking some stuff from BAT and apllying it in a balanced way
 

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Thanks for all the names. I've heard of a couple of them, and I'll look into the rest. I'll be needing some of the leash aggression stuff soon, as Kias is very reactive on leash when with other dogs.
Josie and I are working through leash reactivity. Agree with suggestions from others above. I am new to the breed and trying to educate myself more as much as possible. I have watched some Youtube videos and familiar with Tom Davis' videos. I finally moved on to Leerburg courses and have purchased courses by Tyler Muto and Michael Ellis (Leash Skills, Leash Reactivity etc). At the risk of sounding like an ad, I have to share that Michael Ellis courses are on sale right now. We are waiting on formal training sessions with a local trainer (will test for CGC after) at the moment.
Read the book Purely Positive Training too. Trying to learn corrections and working towards more balanced training right now.
Good luck to us OP! :)
 

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I think MAWL recommended Excel-Erated Learning a while back. Thanks @MineAreWorkingline If it was someone else, I apologize.

Great book! It's an abbreviated version of the Handbooks of Applied Dog Behavior series. It's an easy read and very thorough. I came recommend it enough.
 

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This. Only to add Chad Mackin, who someone else mentioned earlier. I tbink he is great and he has a ton of compassion and understanding for the dogs.

Also for books, I think there is some good theoretical information in books by Patricia McConnel although as a practical dog trainer I am not ao sure. But I find her books to be informative and entertaining although you have to always take with a grain of salt because she is in the anti punishment crowd.
I'll check him out. Thanks!
 

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I think MAWL recommended Excel-Erated Learning a while back. Thanks @MineAreWorkingline If it was someone else, I apologize.

Great book! It's an abbreviated version of the Handbooks of Applied Dog Behavior series. It's an easy read and very thorough. I came recommend it enough.
It was me! Another great book!
 

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Just though you guys might be interested in hearing about a trainer I've found. This trainer is pretty awesome.I love to share my finds with others! 😄

So I've been going to either professional dog sites, you guys, or YouTube for dog training tips and tricks. Last night I hit a pot of YouTube gold when it comes to dog training. I mean, I don't know how many of you would be able to turn a "dominant to the point of rage attacks when you touch his collar" kind of dog into a docile, forgiving creature. I definitely wouldn't, but this guy can. So he's a young, kind of crazy guy, so his videos look a little weird when you first see the titles, but he knows a little something when it comes to dogs, especially shepherds. He takes really serious cases of disobedience, dominance, aggression, and others, and turns the dog into a completely perfect dog in a couple of weeks! The best thing is, he doesn't show you how to train a dog with one that has already learned as an example, he shows you with a dog who is completely naive. He also makes it very clear that the very serious stuff he is doing(like this dominant dog) is not for beginners or a DIY.

On his channel he shows the watchers what he does and how he does it. Every time he makes headway in the video, he stops and explains to his watchers what he was doing and how he did it and not to do it yourself. I'm talking a really professional trainer!

The thing I thought was most interesting was that he had started his career as a horse trainer, training mustangs that weren't broke. I thought that was pretty cool, as he has meshed his training horses philosophies into his dog training philosophies and has come out with a great product.

I would post his YouTube channel on here, but I'm not sure that I'm allowed, so I didn't. But if anyone is interested in seeing it and could tell me whether or not I can, I would be happy to show you guys.
Just thought you might like to hear about it.
One thing that stood out to me about his "aggressive GSD video was how afraid he was of the dog. His other videos might be great, but this one didn't overly impress me. He has the dog muzzled and still gets startled when the dog shows aggression, flinches and backs up. I don't see that dog as "dominate", rank or tough as he makes it out to be. When a dog postures, or makes an aggressive display, if you flinch, back up or startle the dog knows. When you have a snare pole and a muzzle on a dog you should be in control and not nervous at all. You should expect the displays of aggression, be prepared for the aggression and deal with it. I will say the snare pole and muzzle were a good idea, if not a bit of overkill. There are a good idea if your afraid of the dog your working with. Overall, it was not bad. I will have to watch some more of his videos.
 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
One thing that stood out to me about his "aggressive GSD video was how afraid he was of the dog. His other videos might be great, but this one didn't overly impress me. He has the dog muzzled and still gets startled when the dog shows aggression, flinches and backs up. I don't see that dog as "dominate", rank or tough as he makes it out to be. When a dog postures, or makes an aggressive display, if you flinch, back up or startle the dog knows. When you have a snare pole and a muzzle on a dog you should be in control and not nervous at all. You should expect the displays of aggression, be prepared for the aggression and deal with it. I will say the snare pole and muzzle were a good idea, if not a bit of overkill. There are a good idea if your afraid of the dog your working with. Overall, it was not bad. I will have to watch some more of his videos.

You're right there. The nervousness he had at first probably did rub off on the dog a bit. He probably should have been more prepared, but be realistic: how many dog trainers are you going to find that aren't going to flinch when first meeting a dog with a terrible reputation? Not many, I would say. I'm sure there are a few, but not many on the stage of training experience he is in.

Anybody's instinct would be to flinch a bit and get nervous when first meeting a vicious dog. He can probably fix that, but it really is human to be nervous at something that is scary, even if you are a dog trainer. He probably couldn't help that.

He does seem a little nervous, but as long as he gets a much better behaving dog after his session, I don't care. (which he did. See part two, where they work the dog on leash reaction) Also, as long as he is clear-thinking and calm enough to handle the dog, like he was, it doesn't matter to me. If he was nervous and not clear-thinking, now that would be a different story.

I personally like the way he does things. I've read the arguments, I've seen all your opinions and considered them. Some are true, most are true, but I still think he is a good trainer with a lot of experience for the type of trainer he is.
 

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Kathrynil you're new here so thought you'd like to know that Slamdunc is an LE officer that trains both K9s and their handlers.He knows his stuff and we all learn a lot from him.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Oh. Okay. Did I say something wrong? Sorry about that; I'm just saying what I believe.
Just curious: Have you ever worked with dogs like that, Slamdunc and that's how you know? I guess you are probably on of the few if you have.

This trainer is still learning and this was probably his first meeting with a dog like that, as he indicates in his talking. That's why I made those comments. If I offended anyone at all, I'm really sorry about that.
 

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No you didn't offend anyone.My intent was just to provide information.There are some very experienced knowledgeable people here that have owned and trained dogs for many years.Slamdunc,Whiteshepherds,Jax08, that you've been talking to are goldmines of help and information.
 

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I don't see that dog as "dominate", rank or tough as he makes it out to be.
Hi Slamdunc,

I know you have a ton of experience with hard and dominant dogs.

I was curious of what sort of behaviors do you see from dogs that you consider highly dominant or rank?

Do you see the dog in the video as having some degree of rank drive which has been fed by the owner's lack of knowledge, leadership, and boundaries?

With my very limited experience, this dog looks like it may have a genetic propensity for handler aggression if not handled correctly. I think this is too much dog for this particular owner.

I haven't watched any other videos of this trainer yet, but perhaps he is a little apprehensive because he doesn't trust that muzzle - since it came off once already. Not really trying to make excuses for him because I agree with your analysis.
 

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Oh. Okay. Did I say something wrong? Sorry about that; I'm just saying what I believe.
Just curious: Have you ever worked with dogs like that, Slamdunc and that's how you know? I guess you are probably on of the few if you have.

This trainer is still learning and this was probably his first meeting with a dog like that, as he indicates in his talking. That's why I made those comments. If I offended anyone at all, I'm really sorry about that.
Actually, it sounds like you have the correct temperament to handle some these hard dogs :)
 

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Are you talking about me? Oh goodness, I'd probably be scared to death dealing with a dog like that!
I don't mind dealing with horses, because I have studied on them much more and I can interpret their body language, but I have never gotten to the point where I understand dogs that well. I will soon though, since now i have a dog I need to learn to understand.
 

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Are you talking about me? Oh goodness, I'd probably be scared to death dealing with a dog like that!
I don't mind dealing with horses, because I have studied on them much more and I can interpret their body language, but I have never gotten to the point where I understand dogs that well. I will soon though, since now i have a dog I need to learn to understand.
I love how much you want to learn.
One thing that I would caution is to be wary of ANYONE stuck on a method. Every dog you meet will need something different from you and while there are some tried and true methods that work on a majority of dogs there will always be the dog that makes you step outside that comfort zone you built and learn new things.
The other thing to keep in mind is that dogs respond to different people in different ways, so the reaction of the dog may vary.
I watched the first video and I would not have done anything he did, for a couple of different reasons. Most owners muzzle their dogs when bad things are going to happen, things the dog does not like. So you have conditioned the dog to fight when the muzzle comes out, which is what the dog in the video did. The catch pole is almost guaranteed to provoke a fight in a feisty dog.
The video showed a trainer looking for instant gratification and with way over the top energy for dealing with a dog like that. Dogs like that one need calm, cool and collected. Just like spooky horses. I'm no trainer, but I would have found a million things to do in that room while ignoring the dog. Much like toddlers, if you have other stuff to do they want your attention and will come looking for it.
 

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I’m enjoying this thread. I have a reactive dog - mostly to strange dogs on leash. I like that David Winners pointed out Tyler Muto for online help. Thanks! I’ve made the decision to send my dog to Ivan Balabanov’s training center for a 3 week board and train. He needs more than my experience or videos can provide at this point. I drive to Tampa on January 5.
 
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