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Personally, I wouldn't have passed this dog: Duke's Canine Good Citizen Test - YouTube

- dog was unable to stabilize in a sit during the 'accepting a friendly stranger' portion of the test
- dog was overly enthusiastic during the 'sit for petting'
- dog appeared to attempt to jump during the 'appearance and grooming' section, dog appeared to try to nom on the evaluators hand, dog was way too squirmy during this entire section
- dog and handler were NOT in tune during the 'out for a walk' section
- even though the dog is able to pass the test dog, the dog being evaluated lunges at a dog on the side lines (presumably playfully, but it's still a reaction to another dog when there's suppose to be a lack of reaction!)
- dog panics and pulls during the supervised separation; pulls the person holding the leash through closed doors to get to its owner!

Seems if it's true, and the dog did pass this attempt at the cgc test, then this evaluator was way too lax :/
 

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Discussion Starter #2
And for comparison, a beautiful example ... I find it funny that the first is of a GSD, and then the second is of an Aussie... This is very much like it is in my household :p my Aussies are so much more polite than my GSD Canine Good Citizen Test from SmartyPup! - YouTube
 

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I don't know if it's the same where you are, but around me there are a lot of dog related events (within driving distance at least) which have CGC testers on site that will run tests throughout the event. These kind of events are typically very relaxed and do not require preregistration! It would be a good place to do a test run to see how your dog would do -- from what I've seen, when a dog fails the test, the evaluators tend to be very nice and give suggestions on the different things that could use improvements.

Even if my dog could pass by acting the way the dog did in the first video -- I don't think I'd personally be happy with the success!

I'm going to have Virgil tested on the 24th of next month -- I think we will do fine, my only worry is about the test dog -- Virgil does well walking by 'most' dogs, but he still gets himself in a tizzy when it's a small rambunctious dog!
 

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Personally, I wouldn't have passed this dog: Duke's Canine Good Citizen Test - YouTube Nor would I have.

- dog was unable to stabilize in a sit during the 'accepting a friendly stranger' portion of the test Sitting is not required.
- dog was overly enthusiastic during the 'sit for petting' evaluator's have some leeway, if the dog was not aggressive and did not shy away, they can pass the dog.
- dog appeared to attempt to jump during the 'appearance and grooming' section, dog appeared to try to nom on the evaluators hand, dog was way too squirmy during this entire section I think I would have flunked the dog in this section. I never did see her look at the feet. She managed to look in the ears, but you are supposed to touch the dog's front feet.
- dog and handler were NOT in tune during the 'out for a walk' section This does not have to be a tuned walk or heel position. The dog is not allowed to pull the entire time. If this was the only failing mark, I would have passed the dog.
- even though the dog is able to pass the test dog, the dog being evaluated lunges at a dog on the side lines (presumably playfully, but it's still a reaction to another dog when there's suppose to be a lack of reaction!) It tests the reaction to another dog, usually they have a test dog that is non-reactive. But occasionally, they test two dog/handler teams at the same time against one another. I saw the tail end of the reaction to the dog on the side. I did not see if the other dog reacted toward this dog first, if that were the case, I would pass the dog. This is not a test to ensure that there is no reaction whatsoever, but that the dog is under control, the dog cannot bark like an idiot, lunge into the other dog, pull in front of you to get to the other dog. We generally walk forward, sit our dogs, dogs on the outside, exchange pleasantries and walk on by. If the dog tested lunged at another dog without any provocation at ANY time during the test or before the test, I would have flunked it.
- dog panics and pulls during the supervised separation; pulls the person holding the leash through closed doors to get to its owner! Yes, that was bad. But if the man reset the dog and the dog made it through the three minutes, and this was the only mistake int he testing process -- the test process does allow for one of the steps to be redone.

Seems if it's true, and the dog did pass this attempt at the cgc test, then this evaluator was way too lax :/
The CGC is not meant to be a stiff obedience test. It is a starting point for things like Rally, Obedience, Agility. A dog that passes the CGC should be a dog that the evaluator feels confident is stable enough that it would be highly unlikely for the dog to ever bite anyone outside of seriously extenuating circumstances, assailent, serious injury.

The dog should be able to sit, stay, down, and come, this dog did that.
The dog should not go bonkers in a crowd, this dog did fine here.
The dog should be able to walk along on a loose lead -- I have seen worse,
The dog should not lose his mind if there is audio or visual distractions, this dog did fine.
The dog should allow someone to hold him while his owner leaves the room for 3 minutes. It appears that after the dog came back in, the dog managed the three minutes.
The dog/handler should be able to meet someone with another well-behaved dog. It did.
The dog should let you meet someone without jumping on them and licking their ears. Well, kind of -- he did not lick her ears.
The dog should allow you to pet them without shying away. Well, kind of.
The dog should allow you to run the brush down the back, check the ears, check each front foot. It really did not.

I think that failing the CGC just tells you what needs more work. Evaluators are not really doing any favors by passing dogs that flunk. But it is a judgement call. I have seen dogs that passed that I would have flunked. I think that when the person being tested had been in classes with the evaluator, the evaluator has more incentive to pass the individual.

 

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Discussion Starter #6
This is the critera: AKC's Canine Good Citizen (CGC) Program -- I understand each evaluator has a right to interpret as they see fit, but according to the testing criteria, that dog should not have passed. Failure does not mean the dog is a 'bad' dog, it means the dog needs more work!

True, it's not a ridged test, you are allowed to talk to, encourage, and praise your dog. However, it is a test to ensure the dog is a canine ambassador of sorts. An overly enthusiastic dog is not an ambassador for anything other than rude behavior!

I guess this is where we part ways and say to each his own, but I think very little of dogs that pass the test with level of obedience as the dog in the first video.

I think that when the person being tested had been in classes with the evaluator, the evaluator has more incentive to pass the individual.


You are not allowed to take the test if your instructor is the evaluator.

I teach CGC prep classes -- I've done practice CGC tests for students (not my own). I am waiting for my paper work from the AKC to be a CGC evaluator. I would never pass a dog that behaved like the dog in the first video.

Anyway, too often are 'friendly' dogs given a pass on bad behavior because they aren't a 'true' danger... however, a kid getting scratched and knocked over by a friendly dog can be a traumatic experience for that child :/
 

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That must be a rule change. I have been in classes taught by the instructor. Now her husband give the test. Could you point me to where they have that particular rule?

It can be a traumatic experience if the parent or adult monitoring the child is a total idiot. I'm sorry, but falling off your bicycle when you are learning to ride the bike might give you a scratch, big hairy deal. ANY dog might inadvertently knock over or scratch someone. I think a child that goes 18 years never being exposed to anything that has the potential to be traumatic is severely abused/neglected. Every Sunday I babysit my God daughters who are four, and every Sunday when I arrive they have some new scratch or bump to show me that proves they have a life and are not camping out in front of the TV. (I do prefer to give them back without adding to the blood loss, I do not always succeed.)

I have little patience for people being concerned about every little thing traumatizing kids.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
If the instructor's husband is a CGC evaluator, and has not been one of the primary trainers, then there is no conflict of interest. However, evaluators are to avoid any situations that create a conflict of interest. If the evaluator is your trainer, the push to pass a dog is greater (as you even mentioned in one of your previous posts). Also, an evaluator who has also worked in training the handler/dog is not considered a stranger and cannot preform any of the 'friendly stranger' requirements of the test.

As to whether or not one perceives a child getting scratched or knocked over as traumatic -- a dog who would do such an act should not be deemed a canine good citizen. Personally, if I had kids, I wouldn't make a big deal of something like that. However, it is not sign of a well behaved dog!
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Also, the form for the CGC test (at least the new one) has a pass column, and a 'needs more training' column... so a dog that fails is a dog that the evaluator feels needs more training! Again, it doesn't deem that dog a bad dog, just not one that is ready to be certified a canine good citizen!

:p this is one of the statements in the evaluator book:

“this is really a nice dog. He is so full of energy and it’s clear he loves you. But on these test items, it looks like he needs a little more training… Have you been to any obedience classes?... Most of these behaviors are skills that could be taught in a matter of weeks. I’m so glad you brought your dog today. I hope you’ll work on this and try again. I can tell by the way this dog watches every move you make, he’d do well in training.”

Evaluators are suppose to encourage handlers to continue with obedience training if their dogs do not pass!

There's so much in the handbook for evaluators that tries to describe what to look for, what to pass, what to check off as needs more training. From my reading of the handbook, the dog in the video displayed so many behaviors that would have caused it not to pass.
 

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I may have passed the greeting - dogs are not faulted for being happy and wiggley, they just can't jump. The grooming looked pretty iffy though and I get a feeling she couldn't really exmine him, which would be a fail for me. The walking was fine, the dog walked like a dog might on a normal walk and was controlled and not pulling. The dog does not have to heel. I didn't notice the dog lunge but he was quite interested in a dog on the sidelines. The supervised separation was iffy for sure.

On the whole, I don't think I'd have passed this dog but he's not all that bad either. I have seen way worse dogs pass CGC tests. I have seen dogs who growl pass and dogs who are so shy they can't really be touched. There are evaluators out there that don't appear to have ever read the evaluators guide. I'm considered "strict" by some people because I follow the rules in the evaluators guide. Usually when I test classes at least a couple dogs fail. Actually in years of testing, I think I had my first perfect test at a dog show this month - likely because the dogs who were being tested were trained/socialized show and obedience dogs :)
 

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I guess the biggest problem I have with the test is that a puppy can be tested. To me, until they are grown it doesnt really show much though I guess someone who does take a pup through the test will probably maintain some level of basic obedience and know how a dog is supposed to behave.

FWIW my female who is dog snarky and female agressive flew through the test with flying colors. So did my male without any prep.
 

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The separation component was iffy for me but I was told by my CGC evaluator that the dog is granted a second try if they do a component poorly the first time. He looked o.k. the second time around with the separation.
 

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All I saw was a very, very happy, social dog.....who could use a little more OB training.
That particular dog (GSD) in the OP's first thread.....seemed like he/she was pretty excited to be doing ANYTHING....and looked to be happy with whatever was going on.
DOn't have any idea on what should or should not pass.
 

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I dont see any reason that dog should fail a CGC. The only real fault is saw was the supervised separation, but that was the stranger handling the dogs' fault, not sure why she kept letting the dog go thru the doors?

He was a nice, friendly, social dog. He behaves on the leash (doesnt pull like crazy), he sits, downs, stays, he can be around a crowd of little kids, walk past another dog nicely, and be brushed and have his head grabbed and ears looked at by a stranger.

the CGC is not an obedience test. Its just a test to show that you have a dog who behaves like a nice family pet when out in public. Any person can become a CGC evaluator by paying a fee and taking an open book test, so that just tells you right there it is not a "serious" test of a dog's training or behavior.
 

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To those who said they wouldn't pass the dog but did not say why, what parts do you feel the dog failed? It did not look that bad to me, except maybe for the grooming.

- dog and handler were NOT in tune during the 'out for a walk' section
There is no requirement for the dog to be 'in tune' during the walking. I think Bianca had her nose to the ground for half of the walking segment (until I told her to watch me) when she took her CGC, although she stayed in heel position the whole time. We took the test in a brand new place, in a room where a puppy class just finished and something was REALLY interesting on the ground. She is really good at keeping in stride with me with her nose to the ground. :rolleyes:
 

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The only real fault is saw was the supervised separation, but that was the stranger handling the dogs' fault, not sure why she kept letting the dog go thru the doors?
I thought the same thing.

To those who said they wouldn't pass the dog but did not say why, what parts do you feel the dog failed? It did not look that bad to me, except maybe for the grooming.
If the evaluator indeed couldn't finish the examine of the dog, he shouldn't pass even if it was due to being overly friendly/excited. The dog's mouth-yness is definitely iffy too, as it appeared the dog was grabbing the evaluator's arm at a point. Again being overly friendly/excited, not aggressive but still not accepted per the guidelines for the test. It was a bit hard to tell exactly what was going on in the video though.

"Some dogs will wiggle or squirm when they are excited. Some squirming is acceptable, however, this should not be so excessive that the dog cannot be brushed."

"The dog may not jump on or rush to the
Evaluator to initiate
contact. The dog
may not lunge
forward to greet
the Evaluator
"


If you want to read up on the actual AKC guidelines for the CGC tests, AKC has the evaluator's guidelines on their website: http://www.akc.org/pdfs/cgc/GK9GC9.pdf
 

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I did read them, yesterday, and I will stick to my original opinion. I was not sure whether the dog was actually mouthing her or not. I think the dog was just being friendly. I would flunk a dog sooner for being shy than for being friendly.

My understanding is that an evaluator may evaluate her own class, but should have another "friendly stranger" do the first three tests, if she has become less of a stranger through classes. This comes from reading the avoid the appearance of conflict of interest, do not evaluate a dog owned by you, but farther on, it says, the evaluator can determine at what point in training the dog is evaluated -- sounded like the evaluator was the dog's instructor. I do not see that as a conflict of interest really.

I mean, some people might allow it skew their pass rate, but when you think about it, people who will take the dog to them to get an easy pass of the CGC, are not going to continue to work with them through performance training etc, these can be some of the WORST students to have -- the human ones. Better to have it get around that they give an honest evaluation, but the dogs that go through the classes, generally pass. I am ok with that. It is not a conflict of interest.

The evaluator's guide does not say that the evaluator cannot be the dog's regular trainer. As it does with a Rally or Obedience judge in their guidelines. If the AKC wanted that to be a rule, they know how to print it up.
 

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personally the dog would drive me crazy. Just remember this is a test to see how fit the dog is to be out in the general public , not an obedience exam and definitely not a breed test. Excellent dog , bad german shepherd -
 

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personally the dog would drive me crazy. Just remember this is a test to see how fit the dog is to be out in the general public , not an obedience exam and definitely not a breed test. Excellent dog , bad german shepherd -
Interesting statement. I am not confident my GSD will pass the CGC, because she is very much like that dog. She will probably not allow me to leave her with a stranger. If that is the reason she fails CGC then I am OK with that. She is probably a bad German Shepherd.
 

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I have unfortunately passed dogs that I personally would not walk up to and ask to pet outside of class. I had to test a dog that IMO is an overly anxious, nippy dog. But, if the owners can pull it together for the test, what can I do? :( I don't like it though. I've also heard people complain because their instructor failed them or did not allow them to take the test based on previous history.

I am not a certified tester but my trainer does the test after a class, so it's not fair for her to be the "stranger" so sometimes she calls me out (as long as it's not for a class I'm in). When I help out, I give the test and she observes or I mark down what I think. I also sometimes bring my dog as the neutral dog - a dog the dogs being tested have never seen before.

As for the greeting, not necessarily a failure. The way we test is that the dog has to remain "in place". So, if you sit or down your dog, the dog *can* get up, but can't jump on the person, can't move forward or pull the handler somewhere. But they don't necessarily have to remain stoically sitting.
 
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