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Wow. I can see why she was so attached to her dog though, since he saved her life. But, pitts are also being euthanized and banned in so many places, I wish she could of adopted one.
Now, when a dog is cloned- does it have just the physical characteristics/genetics- or ALL the same personality traits/preferences/health issues as well?
 

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A clone would have whatever aspects of the temperament were genetic. And there certainly are genetic components to temperament.

But I'd wager that much/most of a dog's actual personality is learned--from socialization, training, environment, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Tracy I agree 100%
 

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Me too!

I am happy for her though and it sounds as if she will insure all the pups are well cared for.
 

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Quote: McKinney, a screenwriter who taught drama at U.S. universities, said she will take three of the cloned dogs to her home in California and donate the others to work as service dogs for the handicapped or elderly.
This is scary. Has she already made arrangements with the organizations that would train these dogs and place them as service dogs for the handicapped or elderly? I find that very hard to believe, not only because of the breed but because of the liability issues. These are experimental cloned animals. There is no way to know how long they will live, what their temperaments will be, how reliable as service animals they will be long-term.

What about genetic issues? It said in the article that "Booger" died of cancer but not how old he was.

Quote: By McKinley:
"The most unusual thing about Booger was that he has a unique ability to reason," she said.
Dogs cannot "reason". They have the ability to work out and solve a problem but they cannot "reason".

This sounds a lot like someone who has too much money for her grief.

I feel bad that she lost her dog but these pups are not "her dog".
 

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Would it have been better if she had just sold them to any ol joe smoe who might do something they shouldnt with them?

Pitties are very capable of preforming all the services without any extra fear that comes with any other dog in the service area.

As far as the cancer goes, cancer is a very tricky thing and could have been caused by the food the dog was eating. Lots of different things play into making cancer so its not really easy to pinpoint where cancer comes from.

Would I clone a dog with cancer? Well, I dunno, its one of those things that have to be weighed and considered and see what outweighs what.

The live span I think varies on how old the cells were when they were cloned. If the dog was 14yrs old then probably not long. If the dog was just a few years old it might have a longer life span. I think thats how it goes anyways.

To much money, probably. But, at least she didnt clone and then dump off at the pound or something worse.


Edit to add that in a sence, a dog very well can "reason" to an extent. From dictionary.com

rea·son (rzn)
n.
1. The basis or motive for an action, decision, or conviction. See Usage Notes at because, why.
2. A declaration made to explain or justify action, decision, or conviction: inquired about her reason for leaving.
3. An underlying fact or cause that provides logical sense for a premise or occurrence: There is reason to believe that the accused did not commit this crime.
4. The capacity for logical, rational, and analytic thought; intelligence.
5. Good judgment; sound sense.
6. A normal mental state; sanity: He has lost his reason.
7. Logic A premise, usually the minor premise, of an argument.
v. rea·soned, rea·son·ing, rea·sons
v.intr.
1. To use the faculty of reason; think logically.
2. To talk or argue logically and persuasively.
3. Obsolete To engage in conversation or discussion.
v.tr.
1. To determine or conclude by logical thinking: reasoned out a solution to the problem.
2. To persuade or dissuade (someone) with reasons.
Idioms:
by reason of
Because of.
in reason
With good sense or justification; reasonably.
within reason
Within the bounds of good sense or practicality.
with reason
With good cause; justifiably.


It really depends on the context that one wants to use it in and how they take the meaning. Reason like people do? no, they dont do that, its much much different than that.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I guess what bothers me is that money could have been used to save pitts that are on death row now, maybe a sancuary for them. Donating to rescue them . But its not my money. Pitts are extremely smart. I have a gsd/pit mix, I have the best of both worlds. Murphy is the most friendly and loyal and smart dog. I would have another pitt in a heartbeat. There are soo many out there that need good loving homes.
 

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Quote:
From my previous post:

Has she already made arrangements with the organizations that would train these dogs and place them as service dogs for the handicapped or elderly? I find that very hard to believe, not only because of the breed but because of the liability issues.
Do you know of a service organization that would take a cloned animal to train as a service animal and then place it in the hands of a person who needed such an animal? Is the donor "cell" a trained service animal or just someone's beloved pet? There are too many variables and I don't know of any organization that would take such a risk.

Originally Posted By: "GSDolch"Would it have been better if she had just sold them to any ol joe smoe who might do something they shouldnt with them?
My question was based on McKinley's statement as it was reported in that article. She was keeping three and donating two to be service animals for the handicapped or elderly.

My question was, "Has she already made [those] arrangements... ?

If you know of a service organization that would take a cloned pittie and train and place it, and assume liability for it, it's training, etc. I'd love to know about it. I don't know of any.

Originally Posted By: "GSDolch"
As far as the cancer goes, cancer is a very tricky thing and could have been caused by the food the dog was eating. Lots of different things play into making cancer so its not really easy to pinpoint where cancer comes from.
Lots of different things play into making a stable dog too. In order for these pups to be "Booger" who she cloned, they'd have to relive every minute of his life, at the exact moment in thiers, with the same result as he experienced each time. Change one thing and the dog is a different dog.

Same appearance, same cells that might later cause cancer or any other genetic issue, but a different dog mentally.

I don't see where anyone said that pitties couldn't be a good service animal but that wasn't my question and this thread isn't about pitties as service animals.

Sorry if you read it that way. That wasn't the intent.
 
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Yes, I'd have to agree the money would be better spent.

And there's still this; to my knowledge nobody has ever overcome the aging factor of the cell (what led to Dolly the sheep's premature death). All cells have a lifetime of their own. They can only split so many times. If you take a donor cell from an older animal that cell has already split many, many times and so used up a significant portion of it's ability to continue to do so. Unfortunately, for all the money she's spent she is very likely to lose these dogs sooner than she did Booger.
 

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I wasn't going to say that but true.

It's one of the reasons I find it hard to believe that anyone would take them on to train and then place/sell as a service animal.

Dolly ended up dead at only five or six years old. Not long after what would normally be considered full maturity.

I also agree the money could have been better spent.
 

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Well, the edit feature is missing from my above post. Too much time?

I need to correct what I said above. I did mention longevity in my original post and then posted the above responding to GSDad.

Sorry, GSDad. There was no slight or anything like it intended and I do agree with what you posted.
 

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I do indeed agree with you wholeheartedly.

You mentioned the longevity issue and I said in my second post I wasn't going to mention that when in fact I had said just that in my first post. <<insert embarrassed smilie here>> It seemed a little bit disrespectful towards you and I wanted to correct that.
 

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Yeah, but did she clone him? LOL!!!!
 

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Yeah, she's trying to say that is someone else, but how do you have the same birthday, same name, and same social security number? Oh, and from the same town? What a weird story. I read it in my local paper and couldn't believe it!
 

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OK so WHY do those who have no common sense seemingly get an extra $53,000 - plus flying to see them and bringing them to the US? With many nice pitties being killed daily that would have paid for a lot of temperament testing etc to save a lot of dogs.

There is no bringing the donor dog back. I thought about it with the loss of a couple dogs - but not only do I not have that kind of money but a clone of Gael is no more *GAEL* than her great granddaughter is - yes the genetic material is there but it's not HER - her little quirks that made *her* special. That doesn't come with cloning, nor the color or markings.
 
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