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Read it all, this one sees to be very well balanced.

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Dog+attack+stats+with+breed+2012.pdf

I copied this from the paper. How do you think about that Analysis?

Wolf hybrids, German shepherds, and huskies are at the extreme opposite end of
the scale, almost never inflicting severe injury on adults––but it would be a huge mistake
to assume that these seemingly similar patterns reflect similar behavior. They do not.
According to an analysis by the late Robert Lewis Plumb, done at the peak of wolf
hybrid popularity in the mid-1990s, at a time when German shepherds were also much
more popular than today, German shepherds and German shepherd mixes in which the
German shepherd line predominates together amounted to 16% of the entire U.S. and
Canadian dog population, according to the data Plumb was able to assemble about breedspecific licensing, or just about nine million total dogs. There were by contrast only
about 300,000 recognized wolf hybrids: about one for every 30 German shepherds.
Relative to their overall numbers, wolf hybrids were accordingly 60 times more likely to
kill or maim a child than a German shepherd––and that was before even beginning to
consider the critical behavioral distinctions.
German shepherds are herding dogs, bred for generations to guide and protect
sheep. In modern society, they are among the dogs of choice for families with small
children, because of their extremely strong protective instinct. They have three
distinctively different kinds of bite: the guiding nip, which is gentle and does not break
the skin; the grab-and-drag, to pull a puppy or lamb or child away from danger, which
is as gentle as emergency circumstances allow; and the reactive bite, usually in defense
of territory, a child, or someone else the dog is inclined to guard. The reactive bite
usually comes only after many warning barks, growls, and other exhibitions intended to
avert a conflict. When it does come, it is typically accompanied by a frontal leap for the
wrist or throat.
Because German shepherds often use the guiding nip and the grab-and-drag with
children, who sometimes misread the dogs’ intentions and pull away in panic, they are
involved in biting incidents at almost twice the rate that their numbers alone would
predict: approximately 28% of all bite cases, according to a recent five-year compilation
of Minneapolis animal control data. Yet none of the Minneapolis bites by German
shepherds involved a serious injury: hurting someone is almost never the dogs’ intent.
In the German shepherd mauling, killing, and maiming cases I have recorded,
there have almost always been circumstances of duress: the dog was deranged from
being kept alone on a chain for prolonged periods without human contract, was starving,
was otherwise severely abused, was protecting puppies, or was part of a pack including
other dangerous dogs. None of the German shepherd attacks have involved predatory
behavior on the part of an otherwise healthy dog
 

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Good find!

It's statistically difficult to analyze per capita data especially when guessing on the mix breeds. What balances this report is it includes GSD mixes.

One thing noted in the article that I have observed myself is the different attack styles.

With pitties it's not only sheer numbers it's also the style of their attack that increases the severity of injuries.

...and presa canarios and cane corsos, pitties on steroids.....

I'll stick with the herding group dogs.

Read it all, this one sees to be very well balanced.

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Dog+attack+stats+with+breed+2012.pdf

I copied this from the paper. How do you think about that Analysis?
 

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what a bunch of drivel.

so much patently wrong in this article.

a statistic is a gathering of a factual occurrence , not a speculation ", wolf hybrids were accordingly 60 times more likely to
kill or maim a child than a German shepherd––and that was before even beginning to
consider the critical behavioral distinctions" ? what ?

Bite statistics lodged for GSD include all bites - include "rightful" bites in the role of PD k9 , guard/security .
Bite statistics for GSD include all vaguely gsd-like dogs which end up in shelters with bite histories.

"They have three
distinctively different kinds of bite: the guiding nip, which is gentle and does not break
the skin; the grab-and-drag, to pull a puppy or lamb or child away from danger, which
is as gentle as emergency circumstances allow; and the reactive bite, usually in defense
of territory, a child, or someone else the dog is inclined to guard" --- look out ! don't protect your throat with your arm or wrist - ! "it is typically accompanied by a frontal leap for the
wrist or throat."

The GSD is supposed to have a wide, deep , consistent pressure bite which would hold an unruly sheep , keep it from running off . Nipping - not desirable . They weren't dragging it away from danger, they were keeping it under control so that you didn't have mayhem and sheep running all over the place. These continental sheep were not the same breeds as the flightier British breeds. They would challenge the dogs authority , be oppositional.
A reactive bite given after many attempts to AVERT a CONFLICT is a fear bite, reactive, lacking confidence . Active aggression -- fight drive does not avert a conflict it takes charge .
The fear reactive bite, the mainstay of bite problems on the forum is not prey drive it is defensive , fear, not stable .
 

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In red, incorrect the article specifically states the following:


Attacks by police dogs, guard dogs, and dogs trained specifically to fight are also​
excluded.
what a bunch of drivel.

so much patently wrong in this article.

a statistic is a gathering of a factual occurrence , not a speculation ", wolf hybrids were accordingly 60 times more likely to
kill or maim a child than a German shepherd––and that was before even beginning to
consider the critical behavioral distinctions" ? what ?

Bite statistics lodged for GSD include all bites - include "rightful" bites in the role of PD k9 , guard/security .
Bite statistics for GSD include all vaguely gsd-like dogs which end up in shelters with bite histories.

<snipped> .
 

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But we mustn't relax our guard with our dogs. Some of the crazy laws out there will have a dog PTS for bites that really don't do much damage at all.

Our insurance company will pay rather than fight in court, and then drop us, and getting home-owner's insurance while having that dog, or any dog of that breed might not be reasonably possible. So we have to act the way people with Presas or pits should act with respect to their dogs. We need to contain them securely when we are not there to supervise, and be aware all the time when we are supervising. We have to be an active owner.

I don't have a problem with fighting bad dog laws, and trying to shake the foundations of the way the laws are being applied, but I hope never with my own dogs. And I will do everything in my power to ensure that it never happens. I don't want it to be that we GSD owners are our own worst enemy.
 

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Sure good to know that your toddler or baby has three different chances with a GSD. First a nip, then a drag, and then the for real reactive bite. Isn't google wonderful.
 

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We could have zero serious GSD bites and we'll still get sucked down with the pittie owners...it's already happening in GA.

(not that we shouldn't be responsible, we should, but especially in urban areas the pittie problem is bad enough already that it may be too late)


But we mustn't relax our guard with our dogs. Some of the crazy laws out there will have a dog PTS for bites that really don't do much damage at all.

Our insurance company will pay rather than fight in court, and then drop us, and getting home-owner's insurance while having that dog, or any dog of that breed might not be reasonably possible. So we have to act the way people with Presas or pits should act with respect to their dogs. We need to contain them securely when we are not there to supervise, and be aware all the time when we are supervising. We have to be an active owner.

I don't have a problem with fighting bad dog laws, and trying to shake the foundations of the way the laws are being applied, but I hope never with my own dogs. And I will do everything in my power to ensure that it never happens. I don't want it to be that we GSD owners are our own worst enemy.
 

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this "Bite statistics lodged for GSD include all bites - include " is not in the copied material provided by Mrs K.
I tried several times to open the link to read the article in full to see the context of the opening paragraphs about wolves, wolf-hybrid , huskies and GSD . However, I can not open the link - it keeps on coming up page unavailable.
 

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The quote I provided is a cut and paste that comes from Mrs. K's link which opens fine for me?

Still, it's hard to critique an article if you haven't been able read it?

Big picture the data is always going to be a bit 'muddy' because of the guessing involved with mix breeds. However the author of the article went to lengths and explained the methodology (which are not included in Mrs. Ks snippet) to try to level the playing field as much as possible.

While I'm sure we cannot refer to it as a definitive study it's not entirely 'drivel' if you break it down into it's constituent parts (which includes many breeds).





this "Bite statistics lodged for GSD include all bites - include " is not in the copied material provided by Mrs K.
I tried several times to open the link to read the article in full to see the context of the opening paragraphs about wolves, wolf-hybrid , huskies and GSD . However, I can not open the link - it keeps on coming up page unavailable.
 

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Every day.

I wonder if the deputy in this case was justified in shooting the dog.
 

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Every day.

I wonder if the deputy in this case was justified in shooting the dog.
If you're referring to the above story he shot at the dog, but missed. They later se4rved a search warrant and 4 pitts were taken by animal control and two men were int he back of the police car.

It's not mentioned in the online story, but on the air they said the pitts get out often and even tried to attack people riding horses.
 

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If you're referring to the above story he shot at the dog, but missed. They later se4rved a search warrant and 4 pitts were taken by animal control and two men were int he back of the police car.

It's not mentioned in the online story, but on the air they said the pitts get out often and even tried to attack people riding horses.
The pits get out often -- being soft on this sort of crap nets a dead lady. Dead. A lady healthy enough to go jogging, dead because no one pays attention to out of control dogs until they kill someone.

Is anyone else totally disgusted by this? Instead of slapping people with $100 fines for a first offense, and $1000 fines for a second offense of dog at large, and 3 strikes, and your out, you no longer get to have your dog back. So sorry. One time the meter reader might leave the gate open -- after that you check the gate before releasing the dogs.

And now we have people going to prison for being irresponsible dog owners, and I really don't have much compassion for them, but it seems like we pander to people's inability to contain their dogs to the extent that people have this learned-so what? attitude. So society's answer will be once again to go after the breed. I think if the police or animal control has been called 3 times on these dogs, we should be going after them, not just the losers that own the dogs. Or, if we want to look at how to prevent this legislatively, we should not ban breeds of dogs, but we should make the penalties of dogs at large, significant enough to make a difference. And we need to ENFORCE the laws before someone dies.
 

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And now we have people going to prison for being irresponsible dog owners, and I really don't have much compassion for them, but it seems like we pander to people's inability to contain their dogs to the extent that people have this learned-so what? attitude. So society's answer will be once again to go after the breed. I think if the police or animal control has been called 3 times on these dogs, we should be going after them, not just the losers that own the dogs. Or, if we want to look at how to prevent this legislatively, we should not ban breeds of dogs, but we should make the penalties of dogs at large, significant enough to make a difference. And we need to ENFORCE the laws before someone dies.
:thumbup:
 

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That was a WWIII kind of fight it sounds like, I guess it can happen but in the fights I've had to deal with no break sticks.

I had two female labs go at it once but they didn't bite, hold, shake, they bite break off go for a re-attack in rapid succession, usually going for jowls, and ears. Another time it was two Old English Sheep dogs (intact females) one female just hated the other, she got out of her pen and it was on. The other female was pretty submissive and once pinned the aggressor let go. With pitties once they get a good bite they don't let go, that's the tenacity of the terrier in them.

Remember the 'bull' part of their name came from the blood sport of 'bull baiting'. They sparred with bulls and upon gaining a bite on the bull hung on until the bull went down. More like the way lions attack their prey if you think about it. It's not about dominance even, it's about taking the opponent down for good, there's no real 'off' switch, hence the reason pitbull trainers often teach the use of a break stick. That I think is the difference.

...but if you want to compare GSDs to pitties....well I guess it doesn't matter there will be no breed specific legislation coming down the pike, it will be all 'dangerous dogs' and we'll have to get licenses and permits and pay extra fees and taxes to own GSDs too...it's probably already too late to stop it. :shrug:




I have had to. My GSD and Husky got into it and no matter what Tank was not letting go. Thank God I had one around.
 

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That was a WWIII kind of fight it sounds like, I guess it can happen but in the fights I've had to deal with no break sticks.

I had two female labs go at it once but they didn't bite, hold, shake, they bite break off go for a re-attack in rapid succession, usually going for jowls, and ears. Another time it was two Old English Sheep dogs (intact females) one female just hated the other, she got out of her pen and it was on. The other female was pretty submissive and once pinned the aggressor let go. With pitties once they get a good bite they don't let go, that's the tenacity of the terrier in them.

Remember the 'bull' part of their name came from the blood sport of 'bull baiting'. They sparred with bulls and upon gaining a bite on the bull hung on until the bull went down. More like the way lions attack their prey if you think about it. It's not about dominance even, it's about taking the opponent down for good, there's no real 'off' switch, hence the reason pitbull trainers often teach the use of a break stick. That I think is the difference.

...but if you want to compare GSDs to pitties....well I guess it doesn't matter there will be no breed specific legislation coming down the pike, it will be all 'dangerous dogs' and we'll have to get licenses and permits and pay extra fees and taxes to own GSDs too...it's probably already too late to stop it. :shrug:
It's just how Tank is when he fights. He doesn't get into fights often but when he does he doesn't play games.

We should think of GSD's to be in the same line as pit bulls. Everyone jumps on the pit bull train and then what? The next highest biter. Look at Italy. They banned A LOT of dog breeds because of that thought process. All the way down to Corgies. You don't have to be pro pit bull but you darn sure should worry about legislation coming your way and putting in work to stop it before it gets too far. It wasn't long ago GSD's were in the Pit Bull's place in the eye of the public.
 
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