German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm curious which way you trained your dogs, why and if you wish you had done something different and why.

I taught Dante sit, down, etc and then either wait or stay depending on the situation.

Now part of me wishes I had simply taught him that sit/down/etc mean sit/down/etc until I release him. Seems silly to have two commands instead of just one.

So what did you do and why?
Do you wish you had done it differently and why?

(I'm not sure how training in various sports impacts these commands, hopefully we'll get some people in here to answer!)

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
196 Posts
Great post Barb, I have also been wishing I had taught sit as a sit without moving until released.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,483 Posts
I teach sit, down, and stand all as meaning "assume this position and stay in this position until given a release command". I just don't find having a dog sit briefly and then pop up to be useful and don't want to have to give the additional stay command.

I do use "stay" also, but that's more to reinforce a longer stay, for example if I'm going to walk away and leave the dog.

I also use "wait" but that is usually used without a sit/down etc. command accompanying it. We use "wait" to mean "freeze until released". For example when I'm hiking with the dogs off leash and want a minute to catch up, or before I release them to get out of the car (they are only allowed out of the car with a release command).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,280 Posts
I taught sit, down but I also us stay to reinforce whatever
I want him to do.

Place is a good one too!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,451 Posts
Depends. Ideally it means sit until otherwise instructed but in day-to-day situations I'm bad at reinforcing the built in stay, so it's not the dog's fault.

The last trial I did was with Kenya. She had to do a sit out of motion and a down out of motion and did them both, but there were other excersizes where I was permitted to reinforce the command, so I gave her the "wait" signal since there was no penalty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
I taught sit and stay separately, because I use stay in conjunction with lay, and other commands, too. Looking back, I think I also kept them separate for consistencies sake (and laziness), because if I couldn't reinforce the "stay" I didn't want to use it.

I agree with DMC "place" is awesome. I think it is one of the most useful commands my dog knows.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Originally Posted By: Barb E.I'm curious which way you trained your dogs, why and if you wish you had done something different and why.

I taught Dante sit, down, etc and then either wait or stay depending on the situation.

Now part of me wishes I had simply taught him that sit/down/etc mean sit/down/etc until I release him. Seems silly to have two commands instead of just one.

So what did you do and why?
Do you wish you had done it differently and why?

(I'm not sure how training in various sports impacts these commands, hopefully we'll get some people in here to answer!)

Barb, I did the exact same! I taught them seperately and wish I hadn't. I could probably go back and fix that but

Next time!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
I taught "sit" and then "stay/wait" separately. However, somehow, she understands "sit" means to hold that position for an extended period of time... not just put your butt on the ground. "Stay/wait" means that this is going to be a long period of time, I might walk away from you, I might leave your line of sight, I might do all sorts of crazy things, but you're still expected to stay there."

I didn't realize that she understood "sit" in this way until I was handling someone's Doberman for a minute in our last obedience class and every time I told him to sit, he'd put his butt on the ground and then pop back up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
730 Posts
For us sit means you do not move and down means you do not move.

Now I also teach this in my classes as well Stay only come into place when they must stay in an area but are free to move around like behind a baby gate...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,415 Posts
Only one command, sit means sit until you tell the dog to do something different. I used to do sit, and then with a hand signal tell Timber to stay. Now we are working on a single command.
 

·
Moderator who has gone to the dogs
Joined
·
14,619 Posts
I taught wait as "I don't care if you sit, down, stand, do the hokey pokey just do not move forward" command. For example: if they are in the living room and I am in the kitchen they can wait right there (stay) or they can go lay on the futon, play on the deck, lay on my bed, go to their crate, scrub the bathroom they just cannot come closer to the kitchen. Wish I would have kept up with that but I got lazy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,495 Posts
Originally Posted By: Barb E.I'm curious which way you trained your dogs, why and if you wish you had done something different and why.

I taught Dante sit, down, etc and then either wait or stay depending on the situation.
I taught it this way as well to my previous dogs and I will to my future dogs:
"Sit" or down means just sit or down (although they will usually stay in the position for a while anyway)
"Wait" means remain in your current position until I give another command.
"Stay" means stay in your current position until I am both standing at your right side AND I give the release word. No matter what else happens around or what anyone says.

I prefer it this way because I might not always remember to give a release word when I say "sit" and I don't necessarily want my dog to stay in position when I say "sit" or I might be giving another cue or need them to get up immediately after they sit. Examples of when I might want them to sit very briefly are in UKC agility when I am doing the "sit-over-sit" obstacle (or others), in rally obedience, or if I just want them to sit/down very briefly while we are moving through a crowd or climbing rocks or something.
I use the "wait" for situations where I want then to keep in place but I might call them out of the position, because when I say "stay" I want them to stay in place no matter what they might hear me or someone else say. Basically I don't want my dog to get up from a "stay" AT ALL unless I am by the dog's side AND give the release word, whereas if I say "wait" I might be calling them out of the position or asking them to move into another position or something like that, or I might be having someone else call them such as when doing animal-assisted therapy.
For my Golden I actually taught her "wait" to sort of mean two things, it not only means wait in your current position but if she is moving and I say "wait" it also means stop moving (and then remain in that position until released.) So if I was walking her and I needed to stop for a minute I would say "wait" while she was walking to stop her. I also taught her "stop!" to mean basically the same thing, but I only taught that in addition because I figured if I was in an emergency situation/panic I would be more likely to yell "STOP!" rather than remember some command.

I have found in my experience that teaching my dogs a separate word for "stay" and "wait" has made it easier to strengthen their "stay" because no matter what I or anyone else might say accidentally or do trying to distract the dog, if I said "stay" they are not going to be moving. I use "wait" if I am just having the dog stay in place before I do a recall, or until I call them over a jump in agility or while they are on the pause table etc and I want them to be prepared for me to give another cue suddenly.
When I am proofing the "stay" I will do things like run away from the dog, sit on the floor, walk way behind them, walk in a circle around them, step over them, play with a toy, throw things around, crouch down in front of them, make weird noises, etc... Doing these types of things in practice have paid off because I have had situations where my dog was in a stay and something strange or "scary" happened, or where they had to stay in a very distracting environment, etc... I've had times where this paid off just for "fun" and other times in actual situations where it came in handy. Examples of "fun" is when I've played games like My Dog Can Do That or Dog Tic-Tac-Toe (dogs must stay in their square) or dog musical chairs (dogs must stay within a hoop a few feet away and then the humans must find a chair) or other games at some dog camps/events/classes I've been to. For example one of our animal-assisted therapy organizations had a volunteer/dog party, and one of the games they played was a stay competition. They lined up all the therapy dogs and put them in a down-stay and then had the owners go about 15-20 feet away and the objective was to see which dog stayed in place the longest. After the dogs were in a stay they started to do things like toss treats on the floor, squeak toys, bounce balls a few feet in front of the dogs, crouch down a few feet away, make kissy noises, etc. to try to get the dogs to break. After this went on for a while the only two dogs were my Golden Ginger and another Golden who volunteered at the same hospital program as us. Finally they gave up and announced a tie because it was obvious neither dog was going to move! It was just for fun but it was a fun competition and we did end up winning a nice prize as well...

There have also been times where the "bombproof" stay really came in handy. For example once I had my Golden in a down/stay to help some people with a game which involved me and several other people running, yelling, and throwing a tennis ball around for about 20 minutes and Ginger did not move from her stay (except to get more comfortable.) I've also put her in a stay sitting on a cart in a very busy pet show hall while people and dogs streamed past and birds squawked nearby, etc...(when we were volunteering at a booth at the show) or when I needed to do something at a distance and I had her along with me, such as help someone with their dog at a training class, set up agility obstacles, get things down at a store, or other things where I had to have her out of the way and people might be calling her, calling their own dogs, tossing treats, moving things, and other things near her. Another example was when I was trying to catch a loose cat while I had her on a walk with me, so I put her in a down/stay at a distance first so she would not scare the cat away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,651 Posts
For Ris, 'sit' means put your butt on the floor for a while. Generally, she does not pop right back up. If I expect her to hold her position for an extended period of time, I will add a 'wait' command after the 'sit.' 'Wait' means stay in place (not necessarily in position) until I verbally release you. If I want her to stay in place and position, I will use 'stay.' To release Risa from a 'stay,' I use both a verbal and a tactile release.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,078 Posts
I use the same definations as Chicagocanine does, except I exapand upon wait to me wait and watch me because the next command may be a hand signal only.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
222 Posts
I have a friend who trains with Schutzhund and uses a bilingual approach. His dogs are trained (for some commands) in both English and in German. The German commands are strict and used when training/competing or if in a serious situation (dog is near traffic, etc). The English commands mean the same thing, but are much less strict. For example:

If his dog is begging for attention and he wants her to stop, he says "Lie down". She will obey but if she wants to get up 30 seconds later and shift her position, that's fine. If she gets thirsty a minute later and wants to walk over to her water bowl, that's fine. And so on.

On the other hand, if he says "Platz!" then she hits the ground immediately and won't get up until released. While obviously useful in competitions and training, he said it also makes him relaxed in certain situations. If she were to run off in an outdoor area towards traffic or an animal, he has confidence that an emergency platz will hold her until he can go over an put a leash on her.

His wife loves the system. Originally she was afraid she'd give the dog a command one day, forget to release her, and come back an hour later to find the dog hadn't moved. Since she won't accidentally give a command in German, she doesn't have this fear anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,913 Posts
The "sit", "down", "stop" commands mean just that, do not move until I tell you to get up or move.

In her old age, she doesn't even try to move anymore. Beau use to wiggle her bum on the ground when given the "sit" command until released. It was hard not to giggle when she did this, she listened but it was still quite funny.

I am planning to teach my new puppy that these commands mean you do not move from that position until given permission to do so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,415 Posts
I show in obedience (well, I did and still will when I can). A lot of obedience folk feel that the "stay" is implied when you give a sit or down command. I feel that a certain amount of stay is implied but that if I want the dog to continue to stay in that position until another command is given, then I will say "stay" to reinforce that they aren't to move.

I admit to a bit of laxness in my training, and I will sometimes tell my dogs to down or sit and then get busy with something and forget to give them a release word. I make sure, however, if I use "stay" then I am actively engaged with my dogs and will release them with either a release word or another command. This allows my dogs to understand the difference between "sit means sit for a bit" and "sit means sit until told otherwise". It's not fair to them to expect them to stay in a position when I am not 100% consistent with my attention.

"Wait" is my generic command. I tell them "wait" when I open the door to the van, and they're not to move out of that van but they can move around inside of it. I tell them "wait" at the doors and it means the same thing. It just means "stay in that general area" and not "stay in position".

I find it really valuable to have serious commands and generic ones. When I say "come" that's a straight to the front and sit command. If I say "here" that's to get over near me and check in. Both are highly reinforced, but one is much more formal.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,913 Posts
IliamnasQuest said:
A lot of obedience folk feel that the "stay" is implied when you give a sit or down command. I feel that a certain amount of stay is implied but that if I want the dog to continue to stay in that position until another command is given, then I will say "stay" to reinforce that they aren't to move.

I admit to a bit of laxness in my training, and I will sometimes tell my dogs to down or sit and then get busy with something and forget to give them a release word. I make sure, however, if I use "stay" then I am actively engaged with my dogs and will release them with either a release word or another command. This allows my dogs to understand the difference between "sit means sit for a bit" and "sit means sit until told otherwise". It's not fair to them to expect them to stay in a position when I am not 100% consistent with my attention.

"Wait" is my generic command. I tell them "wait" when I open the door to the van, and they're not to move out of that van but they can move around inside of it. I tell them "wait" at the doors and it means the same thing. It just means "stay in that general area" and not "stay in position".
I agree.

If we are wanting her to stay in a certain position for and are activily engaged like you said, then we will reinforce with the "stay" command.

We do the "wait" command as well, works great when putting down her suppers, getting out the car, through a door, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Originally Posted By: Coloradoshe was afraid she'd give the dog a command one day, forget to release her, and come back an hour later to find the dog hadn't moved.
I used to work with a guy that had a female Lab who like most of our dogs was trained to wait until released to eat. He liked to test her from time to time and leave the room.
Well one time he left, got distracted and forgot she was waiting for her dinner.

He said there was a pool of drool larger than a dinner plate under her muzzle but she had not moved from her down position


I'm glad he told me the story since I test Dante from time to time and am
at times easily distracted!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
This is great, thanks everyone for your input

and of course at the same time a
for even more input!!!
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top