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Discussion Starter #1
Does it make a difference in which way you correct a dog for not following command based on these examples?

1. Give the command sit. Dog does not sit so you give a pop on the collar and repeat the command.


2. You give the command to sit. The dog does not sit. You then say "No" pop on the collar and then say sit again.

I know this may be splitting hairs but I am curious of it really makes a difference and which way the majority of you all do it.
 

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How old is the dog (puppy?) - does he know what sit means?

I would never pop a collar when teaching sit. It's the most basic of commands that taught to a very young puppy who needs to learn what it means first.

I also never use no for not doing something. It's for actually doing something not desirable
 

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How old is the dog (puppy?) - does he know what sit means?

I would never pop a collar when teaching sit. It's the most basic of commands that taught to a very young puppy who needs to learn what it means first.

I also never use no for not doing something. It's for actually doing something not desirable
Not doing something when commanded (read IGNORING the handler) isn’t not desirable?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sorry for the confusion. Yes, my dog knows how to sit. I was just using that command as an example. I guess maybe a better example would be working on recalls in a open field with a long line. Tell the dog to come, dog does not, correction and then repeat the command or should it be NO correction repeat command.
 

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I would give a collar pop for blowing off a command the dog already knows. I'd pop the collar, then repeat the command. A collar pop is not a punishment that inflicts pain. To me it's telling the dog, 'hey, pay attention! I meant what I said!"

Of course, if you are just beginning to teach the command, I'd use luring, or some other cue to remind the dog of what I wanted. For a sit, I'd press gently on the hindquarters, while luring the dog's head up and slightly back with a treat.
 

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I use verbal corrections to stop a dog from actively doing something. If the issue is the dog not resounding to a verbal command, then I only use the physical correction. For your sit example, I would only use a collar pop when the dog didn’t respond to the command. If the dog broke the sit, I would use a verbal correction. I use the word no as a no reward marker, not as a correction. It’s never paired with a physical correction.
 

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Does it make a difference in which way you correct a dog for not following command based on these examples?

1. Give the command sit. Dog does not sit so you give a pop on the collar and repeat the command.


2. You give the command to sit. The dog does not sit. You then say "No" pop on the collar and then say sit again.

I know this may be splitting hairs but I am curious of it really makes a difference and which way the majority of you all do it.
No. The correction is the pop or No, pop. But what does make a difference is if hte dog knows Sit and if you are running the Sit, pop, Sit together within a time frame that the dog associates it.

Teach
Proof
Then correct if necessary.
 

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Sorry for the confusion. Yes, my dog knows how to sit. I was just using that command as an example. I guess maybe a better example would be working on recalls in a open field with a long line. Tell the dog to come, dog does not, correction and then repeat the command or should it be NO correction repeat command.
Working on a long line I would call the dog once, give him a second to respond, then reel him in.If the dog is on a line that means he's still learning to obey under distraction.I don't correct dogs while they are learning obedience.I just practice more under circumstances where they struggle to pay attention.
One circumstance I can think of is if the dog is obviously involved in sniffing an irresistible odor or mesmerized by an object and can't seem to tear himself away. Then a Leave It,collar pop for non compliance, recall (reel him in if necessary), reward.
 

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Sorry for the confusion. Yes, my dog knows how to sit. I was just using that command as an example. I guess maybe a better example would be working on recalls in a open field with a long line. Tell the dog to come, dog does not, correction and then repeat the command or should it be NO correction repeat command.

No. I never correct a dog when teaching a recall. My dog needs to WANT to come to me. If you have to correct your dog then you haven't taught any foundation for the command.
 

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You minimize the need for this discussion by laying the correct foundation with hundreds of repetitions of behaviors strengthened by positive reinforcement with a dog that has a decent to high level of drive and gradually increasing the expectations. The training nuances the OP asked about are largely irrelevant when the foundation is correct. When I correct with an e-collar I don't say anything. The dog is stimmed until the behavior is correct and then the stim goes away. If I have to give a prong correction, I pop the collar and give the command again at the same time, but rarely have to use prong corrections. Correct foundation also involves correct timing of reinforcement via reinforcing only correct behavior, correct position of delivery of the reinforcer, and the rate of reinforcement (continuous) early in the foundation. I realize most pet training is often primarily based on compulsion and think sport training techniques are best for pets and competition dogs. It becomes an issue with many pet dogs that they often lack food drive and drive in general making inducive training based on operant learning principles less likely to be successful.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks Everyone. I guess I could have asked the question another way instead of using those commands as examples. Simply pu does it makes since to pair a verbal "No" with a correction for non compliance of a command.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
No. I never correct a dog when teaching a recall. My dog needs to WANT to come to me. If you have to correct your dog then you haven't taught any foundation for the command.

If I understand you correctly then I should never have to correct a dog at all for any command after the foundation has been properly taught?
 

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no. LOL that is not what I said. At all.
 

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I would not ask for something when a dog is truly distracted. If he hears the command he knows for the circumstances we are in then I would correct. I don’t repeat the cue because he heard it the first time and he also knows the meaning of the correction.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
no. LOL that is not what I said. At all.

My mistake. I did say in my response "any" command and I should have said the recall command. Either way that is what I thought you meant.

So what exactly did you say?
 

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Thanks Everyone. I guess I could have asked the question another way instead of using those commands as examples. Simply pu does it makes since to pair a verbal "No" with a correction for non compliance of a command.
No it does not make sense.Read Chip's post again.
 
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