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Re: Do You Know Where That Dog is Going?

THANKS Jean!!
 

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Re: Do You Know Where That Dog is Going?

Can we get a sticky on this post? By one of the all-powerful moderators?

dd
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Re: Do You Know Where That Dog is Going?

More:

From pupresq-
Ditto to what several have said - I'm glad Annie will get another chance. In all likelihood it's her last chance, I hope you and your wife will both exercise every possible precaution to make sure that it counts.

This is not directed at Rob, but at this thread (now where is my soapbox?)

I agree that sometimes people on this board are harsh, insulting, insenstive, whatever. But I really didn't see it at all on this thread. You're much more likely to encounter it in the chat section. Here people spoke the truth as they saw it - and I don't see anyone was disputing that truth. If that truth was hard for some to hear, well, that's because those are hard truths to have to live with. Rescuers live with them every day. We make life and death decisions all day every day. We turn away many more dogs than we could ever hope to save and we do it knowing what will happen when we say no. And every single pair of pleading eyes that you can't help takes another little piece of you with them.

As Jean and dd mention - it is not rescue's job to sugar coat reality so that others can fail their dogs and then go home happy. This goes way beyond Rob, and I will say that I personally am very sick and tired of hearing people talk about dumping their dog for one reason or another and then go on to "legitimize" their action by saying "oh, but it's okay, I gave her to a really nice rescue! It's not like I took her to the shelter or something."

I wish I could make them understand that "a nice rescue" is made up of people, people with no more extra resources or time or energy than they have, only different priorities. It is not easier for us to care for 5 dogs or 10 dogs or 15 dogs than it would be for anyone else. When we do it, we make the same sacrifices that anyone else would. We do it because we prioritize the dogs. Rescue is not a hobby. It is very rewarding but it is not fun. It is not analogous to breeding, schutzhund, or any of the other dog-related activities that are covered by this board. There is not a rescuer out there who would not joyfully chose to do something else with her time and money if only there were no more homeless animals for whom there was no other hope.

I wish I could explain to those people that when you surrender your dog to rescue you are taking what should be your burden and placing it on the back of others and an overburdened system and expecting them to bear it instead of you.

I wish I could explain that when you have a common breed like a GSD and you surrender your dog into rescue, a dog dies. Not your dog this time, but the shelter dog who would have gotten that coveted foster spot that your dog is now in.

I wish I could explain that when you adopt a puppy and then return it as an adult, several dogs die. Not yours again, but the dogs who might have been saved, fostered, and placed, in the time that your now much less adoptable dog sits in that foster home because it's harder to place.

I wish I could help people understand that when you breed a dog, for every person who gets one of your dogs who might have rescued one already here, a home is lost and a dog dies. For every dog that you sell who is bred, that cycle continues and we lose a little more ground in the struggle against pet overpopulation.

Please do not ask those of us who live with these realities day in and day out to dishonor the dogs we daily watch die cold and alone on a concrete floor by pretending that they all made it out and will live happily ever after in "a home in the country with plenty of room to run."

We live with these realities and we expect others, especially those that contribute to them, to be able to face up to them as well.
 

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Re: Do You Know Where That Dog is Going?

You have some very good points.

Now will rescue have the perspective to step back and evaluate how they expend their resources? That pathetic case - so cute but so many health issues, so injured - how many resources is that going to take from the healthy, uninjured animal? Indeed, how many healthy animals could be helped in place of the one that demands so much?

Sure, lets transport that dog across the country because the adopter has fallen for the dog on the opposite coast and, well, yes they want the dog but they won't pay for transport. What else are they not going to pay for? Why doesn't the adopter look locally? Is it that they fear being tugged too many ways when they walk into the pound? It's a darned tough market. You face what your situation is locally if you do that. You know that those you walk out without may not ever get out.

My local humane society is always full. They're full because they step up for abuse cases -- and the unabused or what? underabused? get euthanized. So if you are a dog -- of course you hope your luck holds and you don't need another home. you hope things work out as a puppy. if you are healthy at the pound, you hope you find another home quickly. if you don't, maybe the true good luck would then come in "break a leg" as in be injured. Then you would go to the humane society where they screen their applicants... and euthanize no treatable case. It's not awful there. You might end up spending a lot of time in a crate with a little one on one daily. You might be there for months. They try hard. You don't get hit or kicked. You get vet care. You get some daily attention. You get food. People bring stuff to use for bedding and toys and treats. It's not awful there.

Rescues face rotten decissions daily. Who to take, who to turn away, what parameters to use for adopters.
 

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Re: Do You Know Where That Dog is Going?

Quote: Now will rescue have the perspective to step back and evaluate how they expend their resources? That pathetic case - so cute but so many health issues, so injured - how many resources is that going to take from the healthy, uninjured animal? Indeed, how many healthy animals could be helped in place of the one that demands so much?
This is definitely something rescues deal with every day and it's a weird and complicated process. Sometimes people try to boil it down to basic arithmetic but it goes way beyond X number of dollars for Y number of lives saved. And the money spent on hard luck cases often doesn't always exist (and so therefore can't get taken away) from healthier dogs. Often the dogs for which you get the donations are the ones that are most pathetic. Ironically, the most injured dog at a shelter may have a better chance at life than any one of the perfectly healthy but common other dogs because the hard luck dog is the one that will appeal to people. Sometimes it makes sense to me, sometimes it doesn't, but who am I to tell people which dogs are worth helping and which are not?

And money is just one factor - even more important IMO is foster space. I could rescue two perfectly healthy Shepherd mixes tomorrow and still have them, unplaced, a year from now. So even though I love Shepherd mixes, I'm constantly turning them away because of all the other dogs I won't be able to help if I take them.

But in other cases, yes, the money you spend treating heartworms or parvo is money you don't have for preventative and vaccines for the shelter that might have prevented those situations in the first place. On the other hand, part of your creedo may be doing whatever is necessary for the dogs in your care (it is mine). Another group may feel like treating those things is wrong because it takes the money from other things. There's really no right answer to that one and it's all a balancing act.

Sometimes people make comments that imply that it's my (or rescue's) "job" or obligation to do things in some other way. I'm open to suggestions, I just don't like being told that we "should" euthanize a dog or not help a dog we want to help because that money could be spent in some other way. There's ALWAYS going to be another way to spend the money. You do the best you can. There is no way for me to save them all and I can only do what I can do. I have a soft spot for seniors. Other people are suckers for a particular coat or color. If purebred rescues want to pull purebred rescues with issues over mixes without them, that's their prerogative. No rescuer is obligated to do more than they are doing. No rescuer is obligated at all - except for the obligations we put on ourselves (but man, those are doozies!
) We are not the ones who put the dogs there, we are only doing our best to help.

Quote:Rescues face rotten decisions daily. Who to take, who to turn away, what parameters to use for adopters.
You got that right.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Re: Do You Know Where That Dog is Going?

This is a post from pupresq

just wanted to share with people a situation has come to light in Kentucky today:

http://www.wlextv.com/global/story.asp?s=7998033

This is a well-known rescuer in this area. She has taken in many dogs including German Shepherds. Obviously the rescue community in this area has been abuzz with this all day.

Here are some of the things I've heard people say:

"But she seemed so nice!"
"She was always so helpful!"
"I appreciated that she was always willing to take dogs"
"I saw her paperwork and that looked fine"
"But she had a really nice website"

(http://www.animal-assist.org/dogs.html if you're interested)

From what we've been able to determine today, she and her husband were making their income selling the dogs they "rescued." At least 40 dogs were found dead and the number is larger every time they update the story. Starving dogs were feeding on the dead. Over 100 dogs and counting have been found on the property in deplorable conditions.

Tonight Kentucky and beyond is littered with broken hearts of shelters, rescuers, and transporters who thought they were helping dogs to a better of life and instead helped deliver them into a living ****.

Those of us, me included, who saw some red flags and refused to send her dogs but did nothing further to sound the alarm will have to live with that for the rest of our lives.

This kind of situation IS WHY YOU HAVE TO CHECK EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!! Please please please!!! And why rescue is not the time to be quiet, deferential, polite, and not ask questions. Know where you're sending that dog. Be a busybody. When you see somebody not checking, help them out. Get involved. What happened today is not a once in a blue moon occurence, in fact it's all too common as people learn to exploit the Internet.

Basic home visits and vet checks would have revealed what this person was up to.

I imagine mods will probably want to move this to the general rescue section but I thought it was important to post it here first because I am hoping more people will see it this way.

You cannot afford to assume the best about people in rescue. You don't have to be cynical but you've GOT to be careful. A dog's life depends on it.
 

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Re: Do You Know Where That Dog is Going?

OK I am a little late on this but I agree with everyone. I would want my references checked out. I do foster for a few rescues and have good references. I always have said come to my house talk to my neighbors. Here is my vets number. I just recently started back fostering for my local GSD group and have always vol for them, events. HV etc but did not foster for 4 years I had to go through the whole process. The president of my group said don't take it personally. I did not because I have nothing to hide, except some dog hair and dust bunnies:) There are always folks that have evil intentions for our rescue dogs and we all have to be careful.....
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Re: Do You Know Where That Dog is Going?

http://ozarksfirst.com/content/fulltext/?cid=46781

http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Animal_Rescue_in_Polk_County_363_Animals_Now_Safe_22082.html

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hxB4EiNVgnZPjRYZhLWsnv8VB99AD92H22DO0

More than 360 domestic and farm animals, many of them emaciated, injured and suffering from mange and parasites, were rescued Tuesday from a filthy southwest Missouri property where they were hoarded and bred, authorities said.

The owner of the property was charged with child endangerment because six children, ages 1 to 11, also had been living in what authorities described as an unbelievable scene: 12 to 15 house trailers stacked to the ceilings with junk, trash and debris, crawling with cockroaches. The only water source was a bunch of garden hoses strung together.

"These homes are not fit for anyone to live in," human or animal, Polk County Sheriff Steve Bruce said.

The 363 animals include more than 70 dogs and more than three dozen cats, plus donkeys, rabbits, ducks, chickens, and exotic fish. The Humane Society of Missouri and Polk County also found 12 to 15 dead rabbits, dogs, cats, and poultry.

 

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Re: Do You Know Where That Dog is Going?

well, there just seems to be no end to these situations. sometimes when you begin to ask questions potential rescues/adopters just disappear. no matter, if you cannot satisfy my requirements to check you out, no dog i am helping will go anywhere near you. period.
 

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Re: Do You Know Where That Dog is Going?

And yet we still have people even on this board who can not understand why people want to know what rescue or group a dog is going to go to.
 

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Re: Do You Know Where That Dog is Going?

must be because they aren't educated about the subject, and don't know the reality of what's out there. sometimes people can be incredibly naive about the goings on in the world. SO MANY people have absolutely no idea about the amish puppy mills, or the buckeye dog auction, bait dogs, hoarding...and when you first come here to the urgent section it can be SO EASY to get carried away, if you are a good person, and do want to help...i wish there was a way that when new people do come to the urgent section they could have "mentors"...possibly not practical or possible, but it would be good if newbies could get some input from some of those who've been here a while. oh, and another thing...i wish there was a way that if you want to participate in the urgent section, you have to register more extensively, maybe with details not visible to to everyone, but somewhere in a registry that would be useable to all other's in that section. everyone who works the urgent board should be required to be TOTALLY TRANSPARENT.
 

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Do you know where your rescue is going --- Yes, without exception.

But my group has always arranged for the transport, and every single dog has been placed with a rescue person, a vet's or in severe aggression cases a trainer that works with us.

Frankly, I was suprised to hear that some of the so-called rescue dogs actually end up in a worst place then where they started from.
 

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i wish there was a way that if you want to participate in the urgent section, you have to register more extensively, maybe with details not visible to to everyone, but somewhere in a registry that would be useable to all other's in that section. everyone who works the urgent board should be required to be TOTALLY TRANSPARENT.

This is a great idea. I still see on the urgent boards people helping to pulls dogs and not sure where they are going.

I have pm person to ask questions and the answer were very vauge.
So I will not help. When I have asked how or where the dogs is Etc. again very vague answers.

It would be great if we could posted as suggested what rescue we are with or rescue we have wroked with.

I am new here less than a year.I would expect people to ask me question. I would want them to, I am very transparent.
I would hope the members who have been here a while would give me suggestions and input.
 

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I agree Brigiette. I dont like when I ask a question because I MAY be able to help someone and get told that they dont have to answer to anyone on the board. On the contrary-we are supposed to be a team here. No rescue against rescue, people feeling they dont have to tell the details of the dogs life, etc... The cattiness I sometimes see is very discouraging. I also will not work with someone unless I know exactly who they are, who they are working with and where the dog is going. That is the way it should be for the sake of the dogs.
 

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"everyone who works the urgent board should be required to be TOTALLY TRANSPARENT. "

What does that mean?
 

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A rescue should be willing to provided references, copies of adoption contracts/ adoption policies and welcome a home visit. If anyone offers to helps a rescue with a pull, fostering or transport, then they should be able to ask for these things from the rescue so they can decide for themselves if the rescue is one they fell comfortable working with.

Also this should go both ways. I am sure that most reputable rescue would require references and a home visit from any new fosters or volunteers.
 

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Or maybe most people are doing the right things and trying to help. May be you are so jaded by the several horror stories you do not see that your accusatory and suspicious behavior makes your more damaging to the dogs and improving their conditions then many who are out there intent on hurting them.
Interesting thoughts. Except no one is adopting from you nor asking you to help if you don't want to do so - if you do not want to then don't and if you have questions then ask them without pulicizing your unfounded beliefs a person is your own worst fears and sounding like the person who is supposed to answer is condemned to your fears until they prove otherwise. It is ill-educated, damaging and uncivil.
While you MIGHT, and I say might because I will bet most of you have not seen any such thing first hand, have seen some bad things aren't you perpetuating it by refusing to see the many many many good things? Aren't you stifling the help because you believe good things only when you drag people through the mud first?
I have not seen all that many people on this board INCLUDING YOU do what it is you are so adamant - to the point of arrogant - about demanding from everyone else. And you wonder why people want nothing to do with responding to certain of you. Who died and left you in charge exactly? With this level of behavior on the part of some - I really feel more sorry for the dogs.
Tess
 

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Tess, EVERYONE here on this board has gone through the same level of questioning and wondering when no one knows who they are. MYSELF included. yet I never presumed to think I shouldnt have to be transparent and give the necessary info that was asked of me. The only arrogance I have seen is your responses to well meaning questions.
 

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Hi Tess,

I work with a group that represents several rural shelters and sends dogs to quite a few different rescue groups and with many different transporters. We ask these questions of everyone. We expect others to ask these questions of us. It takes a relatively short amount of time to supply the information and a similarly small amount of time for us to process it. If this process can keep even one dog out a bad situation, I think it's worth doing.

I've been in rescue a long time and I've discovered that bad rescue situations - as well as bad adopters, are not the one-in-a-million chance, nor the single bad apple that spoils the barrel, they're common. They are so common that no one truly concerned with animal welfare should ever send dogs out on a hope and a prayer that things will be fine. Giving people the benefit of the doubt in your personal life is one thing, but when a helpless animal is depending on you to make sure things are okay, then checking up and making sure is something you simply have to do.

I would hope that other people do the same things in other aspects of their lives when the stakes are also high. For example, I would never in a million years hire a babysitter for my child off the Internet, with no questions asked. I would never employ someone to work for me without doing reference checks. Doing rescue is the same kind of thing. You hope for the best, but you also try to make responsible decisions for the animals depending on you.

I have undergone the same kind of questioning on this board and I welcome it! Any time I offer to help hold or transport an animal for a new group, I would hope that people want to call my vet, want to insure that I am who I say I am. I have nothing to hide and lives are on the line here. If someone tells a lie on the chat section, well, they lied, but no big deal. If someone tells a lie on the urgent board, it could literally kill a dog. I think that's what is meant for the need for transparency in rescue operations.

Hope that helps!
 
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