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Hi, I'm hoping like heck that someone has experienced this. 8 weeks ago, my highly active 7 yr. old GSD, Gunnar, got diarrhea very badly after eating. I took him off solid foods for 48 hours, then introduced it back in a little at a time, dry food, always, Canidae Pure Salmon. He is "no grain" and NO people food. It ran right through him. The vet put him on antibiotics and probiotics, for 10 days, in case it was a tummy bug. Changed his meals to long grain rice/eggs/yogurt at their suggestion. He got better. Tried, a little at a time, to swap the eggs for his dry food, right back to the runs. Dried him out again, tried a different dry food. No good. I've spent over $500 in tests so far, they can't find anything. They did a fecal test, that came back clean. They checked for pancreatic problems, did the Panacure sprinkle for 3 days to rid him of any parasites, that all came back clean. Ran a few other tests, nothing is coming back positive. I don't mind cooking rice and eggs, but am concerned about 6 eggs per day/7 days per week. Can dogs get cholesterol? This past week, I swapped the eggs for some VERY good, tummy sensitive canned food. It ripped through him. Took him off that. went back to eggs for 3 days, nice and solid. Tried cooked ground beef, it ran right out of him. Does anyone know what this could be, or what other things he should be tested for?? I have 3 qualified vets at my disposal and they are stumped!! Please help!!!
 

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Sandy...sorry your boy isn't doing well. I am sure others will chime in, but....I have some issues with what your vet deemed a bland diet....long grain rice and brown rice tend to be harder for some dogs to digest, eggs for some dogs are too rich especially if you fry or scramble, if dog isn't used to raw raw egg can bother some. My go to bland diet is baked or boiled boneless/skinless chicken breast(as long as your dog has no chicken issue), 1-2 tablespoons of pure can pumpkin(not the pie filling type), 1-2 tablespoons of plain greek yogurt, and plain white rice(not the minute kind), if this is not enough food for bulk and filler some steamed green beans. Panacur will not rid of both types of tape worm that is common in dogs (tape comes from fleas, and a second one comes from rabbits and mice), I would ask about a dewormer that includes praziquantel, which takes care of both types of tape. Btw, tape worm in dogs doesn't always show up in a stool sample, because the dog needs to be shedding the tape at the time the sample is taken. Although tape is not all that bad for a dog, some types of worms are, it can still mess up the digestive track, and lead to issues, lack of appetite, diarrhea for example. What was the other dry food you tried? For some dogs, a sensitivity can show with them having sever diarrhea, and keeping them on the same food may bring on a sensitivity. If by chance the second kibble was a fish base, I would try a kibble that is grain free that does not include fish as the protein. I have read where some dogs produce a sensitivity to menhaden fish meal, which the Canidae has it listed as the third ingredient. Hope that can help you out some. I wish you the best, ugh, feeding can be so difficult at times.
 

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Thank you SO much for your input. I'm using plain white rice, not the minute kind. I hesitated to go to chicken because so many dogs have touble with it. (Allergies, etc,). The other dry food was Solid Gold Holistic, lamb/sweet potato/peas (I did consider that he might have become intolerant to the fish). But, the problem seems to be solid foods, the onset being very sudden. Would this tape worm that you've mentioned effect solid food digestion? I am absolutely stumped. The vets are stumped. The eggs are scrambled and microwaved, I wouldn't give raw. I did read about the pumpkin, I considered trying that instead of the eggs. I'm concerned about him not getting enough protein. He's dropped 10 lbs, even tho he's never had a fatty/high calorie diet. In the last 6 years, his weight has varied only 3 pounds each way. The vet has always been very pleased with his consistent weight. You'd never know he has a problem; he's highly active, always hungry, drinks normally, sleeps well. Thank you again, I might try the pumpkin this weekend.
 

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SandyAnn04;7532162] Thank you SO much for your input. I'm using plain white rice, not the minute kind. I hesitated to go to chicken because so many dogs have touble with it. (Allergies, etc,). The other dry food was Solid Gold Holistic, lamb/sweet potato/peas (I did consider that he might have become intolerant to the fish). But, the problem seems to be solid foods, the onset being very sudden. Would this tape worm that you've mentioned effect solid food digestion? I am absolutely stumped. The vets are stumped. The eggs are scrambled and microwaved, I wouldn't give raw. I did read about the pumpkin, I considered trying that instead of the eggs. I'm concerned about him not getting enough protein. He's dropped 10 lbs, even tho he's never had a fatty/high calorie diet. In the last 6 years, his weight has varied only 3 pounds each way. The vet has always been very pleased with his consistent weight. You'd never know he has a problem; he's highly active, always hungry, drinks normally, sleeps well. Thank you again, I might try the pumpkin this weekend.
 

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epi????? there is a specific test for that, it cost about $200. there is a epi dog website, just google it, loads of info there. good luck to you
 

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Hi, I'm hoping like heck that someone has experienced this. 8 weeks ago, my highly active 7 yr. old GSD, Gunnar, got diarrhea very badly after eating. I took him off solid foods for 48 hours, then introduced it back in a little at a time, dry food, always, Canidae Pure Salmon. He is "no grain" and NO people food. It ran right through him. The vet put him on antibiotics and probiotics, for 10 days, in case it was a tummy bug. Changed his meals to long grain rice/eggs/yogurt at their suggestion. He got better. Tried, a little at a time, to swap the eggs for his dry food, right back to the runs. Dried him out again, tried a different dry food. No good. I've spent over $500 in tests so far, they can't find anything. They did a fecal test, that came back clean. They checked for pancreatic problems, did the Panacure sprinkle for 3 days to rid him of any parasites, that all came back clean. Ran a few other tests, nothing is coming back positive. I don't mind cooking rice and eggs, but am concerned about 6 eggs per day/7 days per week. Can dogs get cholesterol? This past week, I swapped the eggs for some VERY good, tummy sensitive canned food. It ripped through him. Took him off that. went back to eggs for 3 days, nice and solid. Tried cooked ground beef, it ran right out of him. Does anyone know what this could be, or what other things he should be tested for?? I have 3 qualified vets at my disposal and they are stumped!! Please help!!!
Dogs don't live long enough to develop heart disease from their diet so don't worry about that. I'm also a little surprised the bland diet recommended by your vets has so much stuff in it. The plain, white rice is what resets the digestive track. Additives, like chicken or what have you, are inducements to get the white rice into them because its so bland they're unlikely to eat it without something enticing.

How much of the canned food/kibble/ground beef were you adding back into the rice once you'd gotten him back to a solid stool? It may just be that you're transitioning too quickly.
 

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I would switch him to a higher quality food (see below). If he is still on the rice/chicken, it will make the transition easier BUT do this very slowly.

ACANA REGIONALS (grain free): Acana Regionals | Acana Store locator: Store Locator | Acana

FROMM'S FOUR STAR (grain free):
Four-Star Gourmet Recipes for dogs - Fromm Family Foods locator: Find a store that carries Fromm
4 Star Non Grains include: Beef Frittata, Surf N Turf, Salmon Tunalini, Pork & Peas, Lamb & Lentil, or Game Bird.

THE HONEST KITCHEN DEHYDRATED FOOD: EMBARK: Embark - Grain Free, High Protein Dog Food | The Honest Kitchen Store Locator: Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen A 10# box RE-hydrates to about 35 pounds of food.

Nature's Variety (not Nature's Recipe) Instinct Healthy, Natural Kibble Products for Dogs | Instinct Pet Food for Dogs and Cats
Store locator: Find A Store | Nature's Variety


I would also suggest a high quality Digestive Enzyme (helps to assimilate food) & a ProBiotic (keeps the "good" bacteria in the gut). Since about 75% of the immune system lies in the gut (immune system helps fight allergens) it is very important to keep it very healthy. Below are 2 Human Ingredient Products:
Sunday Sundae (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): Sunday-Sundae-12oz
Digest All Plus: (Digestive Enzyme/ProBiotic combo) Wholistic Digest All Plus? - Digestive Support - Canine

EPI is a possibility as lorihd mentioned and requires special tests: TLI, and also a PLI. The PLI assesses pancreatic function. read www.epi4dogs.com

Another possibility is Giaridia, which is VERY hard to catch on a stool sample. This can be treated by the vet with antibiotics. A natural approach is to use an herbal (even with the vets meds) called Kocci Free: [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Kocci-Free-1oz-anti-parasitic-microscopic/dp/B002MV9UDS/ref=sr_1_1?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1452044633&sr=1-1&keywords=kocci+free[/ame]

You could also try some Slippery Elm (from a local health food store Not GNC) an hour before feeding, which coats and soothes the gut.

Moms:)
 

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... I've spent over $500 in tests so far, they can't find anything. They did a fecal test, that came back clean. They checked for pancreatic problems ...
Sandy Ann, did your vet do a cTLI (canine trypsin-like immunoreactivity test?) and a cobalamin/folate test? A dog has to be fasted for these and the results usually take a week or two to come back. These tests are for EPI. A CBC (complete blood count) test could indicate that the pancreas are normal but does not normally show EPI (exocrine pancreatic insufficiency).

Besides possible diarrhea, EPI dogs tend to be very hungry, all the time, as their body does not absorb nutrients from foods and they begin to loose weight. They literally starve no matter how much they eat. However it can be controlled with the addition of pancreatic enzymes to food, even with raw pancreas (more expensive though). The EPI site noted by lorihd is a very good informational site.

Also, the advice given by Sofie and Miya's Mom is very good. Rice is hard on a stomach. My vet stopped recommending it and recommends what S-M's Mom noted. Good luck to you. Please keep us posted.
 

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The sudden onset of this has me thinking it's not just the usual tender tummy diet stuff.

I'd probably do an EPI test, and an ultrasound just to be sure there's not anything weird going on in there.

Note though that 3 days of Panacur will get some kinds of worms but not necessarily giardia. My understanding is that for giardia, you need 5 days (and we actually often do 7 days in rescue). You may not have given it long enough, if it were giardia. Ask the vet about that.

I assume they've also done a round of Metro with no improvement? (I assume this, as metro seems to be the first thing most vets prescribe for general diarrhea. It works for a lot of dogs.)

Have you tried a prescription canned food (like Hill's I/D)? It's not a long-term solution, but I've seen it help dogs with pretty severe GI distress, helping to reset things to get them back on track after really bad episodes. I don't know why it works, but it sometimes does -- your vet could send home a couple of cans to try.
 

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Sandy, to answer your question, with Miya she had a lack of appetite, so feeding her the mix I mentioned, I had to hand feed, but yes, sometimes loose stools other times solid. The mention of chicken is because typically chicken is the blandest, least fat content easily available protein to give, excluding it only if you know your dog has issues with chicken. The hamburger may have been just too high in fat. I would either continue with the eggs or try the chicken in addition to the pumpkin, since pumpkin is not a protein. Panacur is just not a broad enough dewormer for most typical dogs, since they can eat a mouse fairly quickly, and that type of tape worm is not covered with Panacur. the biggest difference that I see from what you say and what happened with Miya is the appetite, she had none, where you say he does. Same with your boy, Miya lost about 10 pounds as well.

Thank you for posting the EPI info, very informative, and Sandy by your description I am inclined to agree with the others that this may be the problem, since you mentioned he is always hungry. I would still ask for the dewormer with the praziquantel in it, and also request the tests the others mention to rule out EPI. Best of luck to you and your boy.
 

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Sandy Ann, when you say he is always hungry, do you mean always willing to eat like most dogs or does he go above and beyond that, actively looking for food and maybe even eating things outside that he would not normally eat?

Years ago when we thought my Shepherd/Akita mix had EPI, I learned more than I wanted to know about it. The vet had us start the enzyme while we waited for the tests. Luckily for us, for him especially, the test came back negative. At least I thought he was lucky but unfortunately he passed away within a couple of months from hemangiosarcoma. It sneaks up and can it very, very difficult to diagnose. I've lost two dogs to it. Sometimes it can also make them feel hungry.

I struggled whether to mention this or not but then decided you should be aware of it as there are instances when x-rays and ultrasounds might show an HS tumor. Whenever a dog is losing weight and the cause can't be easily determined, cancer is a possibility that needs to be looked at.

If you find out he has EPI though, you may want to consider a good canine nutritionist that is familiar with this condition. German Shepherds are prone to it. It may not be as simple a fix as throwing some pancreatic enzyme (its a powder) into his food. You may have to adjust the food, the quantity, etc. I know you said you don't want to feed raw but sometimes some raw beef pancreas can bring relief for EPI dogs and I was told dogs could eat them whether or not they have EPI.

I hope you find out what is going on soon.I am hoping for the very best for your dog.
 

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Hi, thank you all. Liver enzymes came back at acceptable normal levels. When I began adding solids back in, I used an actual measuring cup, 1/4 C of dry. For the canned, I used 1/4 of the can.

I picked up a dewormer, with praziquantel in it, for the tape worms that aren't covered by the Panacur (from my vet). Working on that now. He's REALLY hungry when I go to feed him twice per day, almost makes me think it might be a worm. When I say really, I mean he acts like he hasn't eaten in days. He barks and spins circles when I'm preparing it. He never used to do that. The next thing the vet suggested was $450 worth of blood work for food allergies. That is a tad out of my range. It came on so fast, and I can't get him back on solids of any kind, I hesitate to think it's an allergy.

The vet wants to do an ultrasound. I haven't asked the price of that. I've never heard of EPI, I will mention that , thank you so much. I appreciate ALL of your input!
 

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I hope your vet will figure out what is going on and your boy will get better real soon :(

My Nikki has EPI and I belong to a great group, take a look to see if any of these symptoms fit. The members over there are wonderful so don't be shy about asking questions :)

http://www.epi4dogs.com/apps/forums/
 

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I'd do the ultrasound and EPI test before the bloodwork for allergies.

My understanding from my vet is that the boarded specialists who study allergies say that the blood test is very unreliable -- I'd have your vet call a vet derm or internal medicine specialists to consult before doing that test (or do a referral). My vet actually looked into it for me and won't use that blood test. The gold standard for diagnosing true food allergies is an elimination diet....it takes 8-10 weeks PER FOOD, with absolutely no cheating with treats (or you restart the clock).
 

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Hi, thank you all. Liver enzymes came back at acceptable normal levels. When I began adding solids back in, I used an actual measuring cup, 1/4 C of dry. For the canned, I used 1/4 of the can.

I picked up a dewormer, with praziquantel in it, for the tape worms that aren't covered by the Panacur (from my vet). Working on that now. He's REALLY hungry when I go to feed him twice per day, almost makes me think it might be a worm. When I say really, I mean he acts like he hasn't eaten in days. He barks and spins circles when I'm preparing it. He never used to do that. The next thing the vet suggested was $450 worth of blood work for food allergies. That is a tad out of my range. It came on so fast, and I can't get him back on solids of any kind, I hesitate to think it's an allergy.

The vet wants to do an ultrasound. I haven't asked the price of that. I've never heard of EPI, I will mention that , thank you so much. I appreciate ALL of your input!
Back the truck up! Your dog may have sustained an acute bacterial infection from something sniffed and licked on a walk. It can take 1-3 months or more to heal the GI track. Keep flipping back and forth causing upset.

Allow the gut to heal. POACH some chicken, organic white rice (cook at 2x the water and 2x as long as suggested on instructions). Definitely give some pumpkin or squash. Slippery elm. Yes. But, claims are, so effective at lining the gut with mucosal barrier that meds won't go through.

Stop flipping meds. Too many.
If in 3 months still problem, then try kocchi free (herbal)
You can add in the Honest Kitchen veg base to the mix after a month, see if goes through, if no, then perhaps stick with real food.

Your dog is loving eggs! they are working, use them. Eggs are considered a super food.

I am not sure, but sudden EPI onset at 7 yrs old??? I wouldn't bother with testing for unless your dog has had anorexia and diarrhea whole life. IF there is a pancreatic issue with enzymes, then look toward cancer of.
 

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Also note:
You feed the dog real food, problem goes away.
You feed the dog manufactured food, problem comes back

(my dog cannot digest beef well, but does great with beef tripe, now that's a food your dog may do cartwheels for)
 

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I'd do the ultrasound and EPI test before the bloodwork for allergies.

My understanding from my vet is that the boarded specialists who study allergies say that the blood test is very unreliable -- I'd have your vet call a vet derm or internal medicine specialists to consult before doing that test (or do a referral). My vet actually looked into it for me and won't use that blood test. The gold standard for diagnosing true food allergies is an elimination diet....it takes 8-10 weeks PER FOOD, with absolutely no cheating with treats (or you restart the clock).
:thumbup:

I totally agree with Magwart about the food allergy testing. Nikki's dermatologist at Texas A&M told me to save my money and that the test is less than 5% accurate :(
 
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