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Discussion Starter #1
How do you start working on a good, consistent bark?

When do you (or do you?) start to get concerned that the dog is not giving a good bark?

Is it often because the dog is "locked in prey?" Solutions?
 

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How about teaching it as barking for food or toy and mark the barking?


I seldom have a helper to work with mine, but, it has happened that this is not always a bad thing. I am working on getting the bark behavior understood before we "put it into action".
 

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Would the first step be to teach the dog that the barking brings the decoy's action?
 

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Is your question concerning in the blind, B&H exercise?
Some dogs are not comfortable in the blind, lack of confidence in there~ so building confidence will help.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I am mostly curious about a green dog, not an insecure dog.

I have heard people recommend using the table (or the box), and/or adding a prong collar.

The idea of the collar (as it has been explained to me) is that in a harness the dog can put all of his energy into pulling, the prong stops that and the dog barks better as a result. The "ouch" of the prong also brings out more aggression.

I am not sure exactly of the way the table/box works? I have seen it, and it did work.
Just thinking by writing...... Maybe it brings just enough stress to add defense? Assuming that the dog was "locked in prey" or if it is a dog with high thresholds who does not easily see a threat?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
How about teaching it as barking for food or toy and mark the barking?

YouTube - Clicker training with coach Bart Bellon

I seldom have a helper to work with mine, but, it has happened that this is not always a bad thing. I am working on getting the bark behavior understood before we "put it into action".
Does barking for a "prey" item transfer over to barking aggressively at the helper?
 

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I don't know that it really does. It should be a rather different mindset when coming into the blind. But, they do have to learn to bark there, so there's that. Hope for a good training helper.

The very first thing I worked on with Hogan and the helper son was the barking. There was not a lot of prey work done early anyway. It was somewhat serious business even the first time out.

If no helper, there is the nifty ball thingy...
http://k-9bsd.com/barkandhold.htm
 

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The answer to this question can be seen at your mailbox. Ask that postal worker how he gets dogs, big and small, to bark at him without offering them the sleeve every time he shows up.
 

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I am not sure exactly of the way the table/box works? I have seen it, and it did work.
Just thinking by writing...... Maybe it brings just enough stress to add defense? Assuming that the dog was "locked in prey" or if it is a dog with high thresholds who does not easily see a threat?
I would say that is the key...and if the dog has a lower threshold the barking may be the reason.
I'm not sure this is your dog that you are writing of, but did the pup ever bark at a rag or pillow?

We have a young female in our group that won't bark, so she was put on a pause table and basically tethered from each side(one line the handler was holding, the other tied to a post)every time she made a noise she was rewarded.
She didn't actually bark strong the last session, but did learn that reward of the pillow wil come with her making some noise. I'm anxious to see what the next session will bring.
 

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The dog must learn that his barking controls the helper. Whether the dog is worked in prey or defense or aggression, that fundamental is the same. The prey dog is telling the helper to give him the toy, the defense dog is telling the helper to back off and the aggression dog is dominating the helper through his bark.

How that whole process is initiated depends on the temperament and drives of the dog, skill of the helper and goals of the training. Some teach this concept initially in prey, where barking flushes the helper making the helper (or rag or tug or whatever) move in response to the bark. Some teach it initially through suspicion, where the helper presents a threat or challenge, which is then neutralized by the dog. When the dog barks strongly, the "bad guy" backs down or leaves. But no matter how it is approached, the end goal is the same.. for the dog to learn he can control the helper, and in doing so start the action, counter attacks, subdue the threat, and basically run the whole show not just through biting, but also through barking.

The mailman analogy is a very good one. From the dog's perspective, since he has no way of knowing anything else, the sequence goes like this: mailman came, dog barked, mailman left. To the dog his actions caused the mailman to leave. He controlled, overpowered and scared off the mailman, driving him away from the territory, through his barking.
 

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The answer to this question can be seen at your mailbox. Ask that postal worker how he gets dogs, big and small, to bark at him without offering them the sleeve every time he shows up.
Crap. Bison doesn't bark at the mail carrier. Doesn't see her as a threat. She comes up on our poarch and then leaves. Now the pizza guy... :spittingcoffee:
 

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"I am not sure exactly of the way the table/box works?"


Since it's flight or fight, a table leaves no flight option, so brings out
defense.Never used one, was not an option presented.
An older school approach, from what I have gathered.

Maybe others who have used a table can speak to it's use and explain it better?
 

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Since it's flight or fight, a table leaves no flight option, so brings out
defense.
Some dogs take flight within themselves. It's called learned helplessness.

And the table is not "old school". There may have been a few people that needed that crutch back in the day. But because of the type of helper work that most "new school" helpers do they need this crutch to illicit the same behaviors that can be accomplished on the ground.
 

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Some dogs take flight within themselves. It's called learned helplessness.
Can you explain this a little more.. Please. :) Curious to hear what you mean.. And is this something the dog learned because of the helper or no?
 
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