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Discussion Starter #1
My puppy (1 year old) seems to have a weak immune system.

She's been prone to getting giardia infections (I've posted on it before) and usually when she gets one, she starts to develop little bumps on her skin which my vet said is the non-contagious demodectic mange, although nothing came back from the skin scrapings.

The first place she got the bumps was her hocks. They were about 1/4" to 3/8" in diameter. They'd last a few weeks, she'd kind of lost the hair on them, but they'd go down and the hair would slowly grow back. The weird part is, the next time, she got them on her elbows, then it seemed to lose a bit of hair around one eye, and get them on her lips. They seem to be gradually moving from back to front, and it's weird that it's mostly on her joints?

She's recently had loose poop again and I noticed a HUGE bump starting on her elbow and a couple of smaller one's on her lips. Out of desperation, I've been putting polysporin on it, hoping it will suffocate the mites? I don't know if this is helping, but it makes me feel like I'm doing something...

Is there anything I can do to treat this? I heard Ivermectin is one drug, but that herding breeds can't take it?

I switched her to a raw diet a few months ago and she's been doing so much better, but she seems to be having a flare up again.

I love my dog, but she seems to be a bit of a lemon in terms of her health (bought her from a great breeder, who does all the hip/elbow x-rays, tests for DM etc). She's never had a pup with issues like this before, I think she's just a fluke. I'm getting so frustrated with this. :(

Can anything be done?
 

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There are 2 "kinds" of demodex - it is either local - which I believe is 3 spots or less, and then general, which is more. If she is not spayed, I would do that.

If she has the generalized, I would treat with Ivermectin after checking her for MDR1 through Washington State vet teaching hospital. I know people are going to go nuts with that idea but if it is actually the more severe mange that does work. And I have a Sheltie mix who we assumed would be MDR1 while treating for the other (sarcoptic) mange with Revolution.

I would however, see a derm vet, and also ask about the joints, before doing anything.

Mar Vista vet has a good article on demodex.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ok, I'm in Canada, does that make a difference on testing and where to have it done? I am close tot he OVC in Guelph, if that makes a difference. She has 3 spots that I know of at this time, but has had them in other places on her body at different times.

Is the MDR1 the thing that makes giving Ivermectin dangerous?

She's spayed.

I'm so frustrated, I don't think I've had a normal first experience with GSD's. I love her so much, but I hate all the problems I've been having. Between the health issues, she's leash reactive with other dogs (did a TON of socialization, puppy class, grade 1, grade 2, doggy daycare, dog sports etc) and has a low threshold/gets overstimulated easily, which has made doing dog sports with her pretty much impossible. I'm not sure I'd get another GSD after this, as much as I love them. I don't know...

Here's a pic of the one on her elbow. She's never had one this big before, it's probably 3/4" at least. Does this look like demodex to you?

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z395/Conner2007/20130513_170019_zpsc4eaf497.jpg
 

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To assist the immune system you have to address the G.I. Tract

D-Zyme - Like the ingredients in Bert's Digestive blend as it has pancreatin and amino acids necessary for repair for absorption and healing of "leaky gut" such as L-Glutamine as well has probiotics

Ingredients: One tablespoon contains:
L-Glutamine (500 mg), Lactobacillus Acidophilus 100 Million CFU (100 mg), Lactobacillus Bulgaricus 100 Million CFU (75 mg), Streptococcus Themophilus 75 Million CFU (75 mg), Ginger Root (10 mg), N-Acetyl-Glucosamine (50 mg), L-Glycine (32 mg), Papain (50 mg), Pepsin (100 mg), Pancreatin 4x (100 mg), Pancrelipase (50 mg), Ox Bile Extract (60 mg), Bromelain (40 mg), Amylase (30 mg), Trypsin (25 mg) and Betaine (30 mg).



Berte's Digestion Blend (1 lb.) Berte's Digestion Blend - bacterial pancreatic IBD and GI supplement [04016] - $40.95

To regulate the immune system, Bovine Colostrum in combo with SeaCure, called SeaVive...Dogs naturally article suggests at least 40% min. immunoglobulin - this product has it, plus the benefits of seacure for immune health and GI repair.
Proper Nutrition: SeaVive® - Comprehensive Immune Support

can read the PDF by clicking Seacure under the articles link
Proper Nutrition - News/Articles
 

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shampoo with Defendex . This almost looks more like a dietary insufficiency .
I have Defendex on hand or you can buy from Amazon.
sending PM
 

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Haven't seen Goodwinol Ointment mentioned here. Been lucky enough to own 5 GSD's. Four of five came down w Demodex within a couple of weeks of vaccinations.

My 18 week old, black male has a slight case now, on both front paws. All shots have been completed in last 3 weeks. I believe the natural transitioning from the mother's immune system to the pup's own, coupled w the stress to the immune system incurred through vaccinations, can easily stress the pup's immune system to bring on a bout of mange.

I asked my vet about this recently and got a tepid response. Maybe - maybe not. Anyway, other than right after vaccinations, I have never experienced mange in any of my immature, adult or senior GSD's. I know it's anecdotal, but I think it has merit.

Try Goodwinol Ointment and stick with it. Great stuff. It'll fix your guy up.
 

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That looks more like a fungus/hot spot type of thing vs mange.

Have you take her to the vet? Done a skin scraping on that nasty thing?

That would be my first step since you haven't mentioned a vet, tho I might have missed it.
 

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I would use Iodine and neem oil on these issues.

Wash the dog more regularly(every 2 weeks) and apply the neem oil in the shampoo and onto any dry or red patches on the skin or any where you see dandruff. Apply to affected areas every 2 days and it should be gone in a week or 2. The Iodine can be used to wash the dog and disinfect the skin as well. Also put the iodine onto any wet patches as this will dry out the area. Both substances cures/helps treat mange and hot spots

If the dog has a weak immune system then use kelp(high level of Iodine), echinacea, vitamins and omega oils.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hi all, I have taken her to the vet and had skin scrapings done no less than three times, which were all inconclusive.

However, she's had these bumps come up on her lips too, which apparently is another common spot to get them with Demodex, and it's happened at the same time as this thing on her elbow came up, so I do think it could be something that flares up if her immune system gets stressed. She's had a few giardia infections, which most dogs with strong immune systems can fight themselves, so I just think her immune system isn't the greatest. Her tummy *touch wood* has been much better since I started feeding her raw.

Still trying to meet up with carmspack to try the shampoo.

The bump has gone down some, but the fur is still missing. Poor little pup. It's not bothering her as much now though at least.

Damicordric, what is that oil, is it put on topically, or fed?

MadLab, I'll maybe try adding that to some shampoo. She could use a bath, hasn't had one in a while.

I'll try anything at this point. lol
 

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Blackshep.

Goodwinol Ointment. Available almost at any online pet meds store. Rx not needed. About $7.50 per jar. 1 oz sized. I always have 1 on hand. JIC.

Topical. Rub it into skin as best you can. Pup might lick it off, but she'll get used to it. Easy to re-apply. I do mainly at night before bed.

Had a great, old school vet suggest it to me years ago in Richmond, VA.

Try it and good luck w her.
 

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Damicodric it does not sound like Goodwinol is doing much good .

Benzocaine is a numbing agent with cautions to handling . If your pup is licking it off (but will get used to it) you should know that the dog could have breathing problems , accelerated heart rate . Benzocaine: The Wrong Teething Gel for Your Infant | Vista Magazine

Rotenone - is an old time garden insecticide , neurotoxin , with implications of increased chances of Parkinsons .

with Demodex you can use a safe shampoo Defendex VETiONX Defendex - Fleas, Mange and Scabies Symptom Relief Treatment Shampoo

which removes the mange mite .

other options would include MSM inclusive Sulfinex , or these products , which are safe Amazon.com: Scabies Lotion Treatment :: All Stop Scabies & Mite Combo: Health & Personal Care

sulfinex, mitactin as topical or spot treatment.

In any case the immune system has to be given support . MSM , an organic sulfur is good .
 

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Lets not forget garlic - infuse some into coconut oil and apply that.
 

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If the skin scrapings come back negative, why do you keep focusing on demodectic mange? Have you talked to her breeder? Has she had vaccinations recently?
What are you feeding her? The first thing I would try is to start her on a raw diet for a couple of months if you have not already.
 

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Carm.

Goodwinol is used, at least for me, as a once daily dose - typically at night. I've never used beyond 7 to 10 days. Benzo is barely 2% of the product and other active ingredients are .5 % of the product.

On a 50 lb to 60 lb pup, applying Goodwinol on two or three quarter sized patches, once per day will do no harm, particularly on an infrequent basis.

I've had four instances of Demodex on 4 different, young GSD's and have used nothing else. All healed. None died.

Blackshep's pup might have larger issues than Demodex; granted. I was offering an alternative to medicated shampoos.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If the skin scrapings come back negative, why do you keep focusing on demodectic mange? Have you talked to her breeder? Has she had vaccinations recently?
What are you feeding her? The first thing I would try is to start her on a raw diet for a couple of months if you have not already.
I guess because of the locations of them, and my vet said scrapings aren't always conclusive, because you can still miss the mite. No on the vaccinations, she gets her boosters later this summer.

She's on a raw diet for 3 or 4 months now (and doing really well on it, she was having tummy trouble before!)

I've talked to the breeder and a couple of other experienced dog people and they thought it's what it looked like too?

I'm not sure what else to do, all the pet professionals in my life think it's demodex? :confused:

I just know that giardia and demodex, if a dog has a strong immune system, they should be able to fight it themselves. So my guess is, her immune system isn't the greatest, which is why she's been susceptible to both?
 
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