Long Mange Post....
I'm with you Ruth -- I would rather build up the immune system so it can control the mites on their own. I would only resort to dips and such as a last ditch effort. And even then, I would try something like a preventic tick collar first. I've heard of the Goodwinol, but have no experience with it.
Here's some excerpts of just stuff I collected many years ago -- seems like there was a ton of mange going around at the time. Hope there is something in here that is helpful.
Posted by xxxxxx on April 16, 19100 at 15:55:50:
I found this list of supplements on a website. They are not a cure, but assist in re-building the immune system and helping the skin.
? Echinacea (fights infection) (2 - 4 350 mg. caps/day)
? Colostrum (this is the 'essence' of bovine mother's milk to boost immunity). Start very slowly with this - it is a milk product and some dogs
could be intolerant. Build gradually to human daily dose. (It varies with the one you use.)
? Chelated Zinc (as in humans -- immune deficient often is zinc deficient - ask your vet!!) - about 15-30 mg./day.
? MSM (this is a biological sulphur -- the closest thing you can come to anything that will actually build a "cure" from within -- it's used for "skin
conditions" holistically for both humans and animals). 1000 mg/day (ask your vet)
? Vitamins C, A and E (anti-oxidants -- fight infection and heal skin)*
? Omega 3 Fish Oil Supplements.*
Posted by xxxxxx on April 16, 19100 at 19:20:23:
In Reply to: Supplements for dogs with demodex mange. . .msg. posted by xxxxxx on April 16, 19100 at 15:55:50:
My dog gets 500mg ester-C, vit-E 200ie, brewers yeast, kelp and grounded flaxseed (omega-3 acids) in the morning, in the evening he gets 500 mg ester-C, brewers yeast, kelp, flaxseed and Cat's Claw Plus(instead of the vit-E). Cat's Claw Plus has Echinacea in it and is stronger than the Echinacea on it's own. Colostrum, chelated zinc, MSM and vit.A and E are the ones I'd discuss with your (hollistic) vet. One (human and pet) can get an overdose on vit. A and E. Therefor you'd have to know how much you can give your pet. April last year, he was finally diagnosed with demodex then, we thought he wouldn't last another two months. We treated the mange as the vet prescribed. 2.5 months after he was mange 'free', he had a relaps. I did my homework and besides the vets prescribtion, I gave my dog the supplements, mentioned above. He's mange 'free' for more than 6 months now.
So, my experience with Red mange is: treat the mites, but most important help the immune system.
Posted by xxxxxx on December 11, 1999 at 11:17:26:
My dog had demodex mange at about the same age. We did the mitaban dips once a week for 3 weeks and 2 more times at 2 week intervals. He responded very well and hasn't had a relapse and he's 2 1/2 now. We also put him on a high quality dog food, vitamin E, vitamin C, raw liver, garlic, brewers yeast, zinc, a multiple vitamin, vitamin b-complex, flaxseed oil and sulfur. (These are just the ones I remember.) You might also try the Preventic tick collar. It's made out of mitaban. Our vet also strongly recommended not vaccinating a puppy with this because of the weakened immune system. All dogs have demodex mites on them, it's just the ones without a strong enough immune system to fight them off that become affected. My vet also called the breeder and highly suggested no repeat breedings since she was also seeing another puppy from that litter for the same thing. Good luck, it can be cleared up.
Posted by xxxxxx on November 24, 1999 at 14:16:41:
"Herbal Multiaction Skin Gel" should stop the itching...
In Reply to: Belizean Local Remedy for Demodectic Mange posted by xxxxxx on November 23, 1999 at 21:32:06:
"Herbal Multiaction Skin Gel" should stop the itching. It smells really bad, but it's good for mange, ringworm, hot spots and gives immediate relief from itching. Maybe blonde can give you a homeopathic remedy; but in the meantime you could use this. You should be able to get it from a holistic vet. This product is made in Ghaziabad, India, by Dabur Ayurvet, Ltd. We participated in the research trials a year before it came on the market. It worked so well (cleared up hot spots, old and new, within 24 to 48 hours) that I treated it like gold since it couldn't be bought.
Posted by xxxxxx on November 11, 1999 at 13:52:46:
In Reply to: Demodectic Mange Treatment?? posted by Friederike on November 11, 1999 at 10:41:21:
an opposite point of view... my experience with this is based on ONE pup, so it is **very limited**. But we had a pup in training whose vet said the same thing, to wait and see. First thing she did is take the pup off of Cosequin, since dog's with compromised immune systems shouldn't be taking glucosamine, and it helped. Then it stabalized and improved as the pup aged. They kept an eye on it and I'm sure if it worsened they would have treated. From that one single experience, it seems to me that if the mange isn't too bad, that's it's worth waiting just a bit, since I would think a dip would also be difficult on the pup. What about a Preventic tick collar as an experiment?
Posted by xxxxxx on November 11, 1999 at 15:44:26:
In Reply to: an opposite point of view... posted by xxxxxx on November 11, 1999 at 13:52:46:
i agree there are exceptions but how do you know??? which ones are the exceptions ...you hope the owners will be as enlighted or carefull as you but some would wait for the 6 weeks and even though it was getting worse and worse they would come to me with the same statement that their vet said to keep an eye on it..they didn't so they were mad at him..not all owners are as aware or as knowledgeable as others and it is difficult to take a chance on such a large variable..as i said, even most ringworms are self limiting but if you tell an owner that and they get ring worm you are in deep trouble--a friend of mine got sued because a husband lost the "use of his wife for 6 weeks" because it transmitted to them...he never did say what he used his wife for but the judge threw it out because he was properly warned....
Posted by xxxxxx on November 11, 1999 at 16:19:07:
In Reply to: i agree there are exceptions but how do you know??? posted by xxxxxx on November 11, 1999 at 15:44:26:
EVERY PATIENT OR ITS OWNER IS A BIG QUESTION MARK.... I mean it totally amazes me how careless, unobservant, ignorant, stupid owners can be. Even when I have written everything down on paper. So Davet .... you know that it's a "given" with every patient that came through your office as to how observant they are going to be. Mange isn't a problem around dogshow people and if it does crop up, it's kept hush-hush, so my experience has been with skin tissue problems...not mange. But common sense says to build up the immune system and try to eliminate mange mites with a lime-sulfur solution. And use one of the homeopaths that I know works for itching.
Posted by xxxxxx on November 11, 1999 at 17:37:03:
In Reply to: EVERY PATIENT OR ITS OWNER IS A BIG QUESTION MARK.... posted by xxxxxx on November 11, 1999 at 16:18:48:
My opinion, for what it's worth........We're dealing with Demodectic mange again *sigh*. Difference: our dog is 6 years and has an underlaying problem. When we found out, april this year, that he was suffering from this kind of mange (he was very bad), I've spent hours on the internet to learn about this disorder as much as I could. I read about puppies who got over it, just by getting their immune system back together and treating the spots with sulfur. (Lisa's and Blonde's experiences) If I had a PUPPIE with mange in an EARLY stage, I'd try to build up the system and smear the sulfur mix on the spots. AND KEEP A CLOSE EYE ON HOW THINGS WOULD DEVELOP. Don't let the mange go out of hand. Monitor every day. This will take some of your time, but believe me, when you'd let it generalize it will take a lot more of suffering (and time). The moment you'd start to wonder if this treatment helps, I'd say, that's the moment to start the dips.
BTW building up the system is a must in every case, IMHO.
Posted by xxxxxx on November 11, 1999 at 17:12:20:
In Reply to: EVERY PATIENT OR ITS OWNER IS A BIG QUESTION MARK.... posted by xxxxxx on November 11, 1999 at 16:19:07:
lime sulfur is good, and anything else is far better than nothing::::NM
Posted by xxxxxx on November 07, 1999 at 00:31:00:
In Reply to: Mange, adult dog - HELP posted by xxxxxx on November 07, 1999 at 00:08:18:
It sort of sounds like your dog may be having a reaction to the dip and then having to fight the mange as well. Sounds like your dog's immune system is having to do double duty. I would detox, detox, detox that dog--if it were mine-- and at the same time be building up the immune system. There are herbal combinations that are for enviromental detox and chemical sensitivity. I have the best homeopath for nullifying the effects of poisonous chemicals. Take your dog to a true holistic vet if you want to improve your dog's chances. This is my opinion.
Posted by anne on November 07, 1999 at 00:45:05:
In Reply to: It sort of sounds like your dog may be having a reaction posted by blonde on November 07, 1999 at 00:31:00:
Must agree with blonde, some dogs react badly to dips and it sounds like yours is one of them. A treatment that I have seen work absolute wonders on dogs with mange is nothing more than 0.27% Ivermectin (Ivomec), given orally or injected SQ. This combined with soothing shampoos (I like the kind with coconut oil, oatmeal and herbal extracts to soothe naturally) can make the dog much more comfortable, get rid of the mange, and you do not have to have the toxic dips anymore. I would seek a second opinion in this case.
Posted by xxxxxx on October 01, 1999 at 07:55:28:
In Reply to: Re: whooooops, that was supposed to read xxxxxx :::::NM posted by xxxxxx on September 30, 1999 at 21:07:41:
Demodectic mange is often called puppy mange, because in most cases it occurs in puppies. Laura is right about the immune system. The immune system of puppies hasn't matured yet, that's the reason some puppies suffer from it. Davet, don't want to offend you but the explanation you gave, why not to breed a demodectic female is just a small part of the story. One shouldn't breed with a male with demo either. Since demodectic mites are supposed to be present in all dogs, you'd say that all puppies will have Demo and that's not the case. Demodectic mange is caused by a weakend immune system that isn't able to suppres the mites. The mites will multiply and cause the skinproblems. Therefor, one shouldn't breed with a demodectic dog, female or male, because the pups might inherit a bad immune system. In alot of cases, the mange (once treated) will not reoccur but you can't tell on forhand. When a dog is 3+ years the immune system will be able to control the mites.UNLESS there is an underlaying illnes or disease that suppresses the immune system. The main reason for not breeding, it might be an inherrited disease. Depending on how sever your dogs mange is, basic treatment is pretty much the same in all dogs. An antibiotics cure, to treat the bacteria (the bad skin is a pretty good feeding place for bacteria) and dippings. When you dip him yourself, be sure to wear protective clothing and rubber cloves, it is a very strong pesticide. The first dippings might get your dog pretty sick. When our dog got his first dipping, he was totally off of this world. That gets better everytime the dog is dipped, the body gets 'used' to the dip. Give your dog a premium dogfood and try to prevent any extra stimulation of the immune system. (might include the vaccination cocktail, talk that over with your vet.) This a condition that will take a long time to cure, but normaly it will be.
Posted by xxxxxx on August 09, 1999 at 23:37:07:
In Reply to: Demodectic Mange posted by xxxxxx on August 09, 1999 at 12:59:30:
Don't think, you can blame the vets, maybe some manifacturers. WOW, Amitraz isn't exactly cheap. The first time I bought the dip, I thought I'd paid the vet's fee and the dip. The second bottle made clear I just paid for the dip that first time.LOL :-(? The hard thing about Demodectic mange is to find a balance between, treating the mange and making sure the immune system isn't overstimulated too much. Because, as Karen allready stated, the immune system is very complex and it's very hard to point a finger to what might have triggered the compressed system (the trigger differs from dog to dog, I guess), each time a vet encouters a dog with Demo, he/she has a living puzzle to deal with. Our dog got mange when he was 5 years young, never had it before. Everything you put in or on your dogs body, has an effect on the system. Antibiotics (needed to treat the infection, which is seen often when mange occurs) not only kills the bad bacteria. Vaccins trigger the system to make antibodies, etc. Should I say more? It's important to treat the mange first and at the same time trying to figure out what caused the system to compress(the hard part). And what's even more important, try to boost the system. In my dog's case, a cure to replace the good bacteria (Bifidolphilus), Vitamine C, enzymes. (Blonde is a great help.) There are probably lots of good stuff to get, but in the few weeks I've been giving this to our dog, he has improved a lot.
Posted by xxxxxx on April 01, 1999 at 18:21:51:
In Reply to: Re: you treat them locally and sometimes internall but:::::: posted by xxxxxx on April 01, 1999 at 17:51:57:
Apple cider vinegar is very effective....at cleaning/flushing hair folicles....but the bad thing is that its not overly effective with mites. But I am told that garlic is effective using 2 capsules given 3 times per day. (Internally) Do this every other day for 2 weeks.
Posted by xxxxxx on March 17, 1999 at 17:04:08:
In Reply to: "hairless wonder" needs mange relief... posted by Jan on March 17, 1999 at 15:12:01:
Here is one herbal remedy from an alternative med site - glad you saved the pup,
Mange - For this skin infection caused by mites, Drs. Geelhoed and Barilla suggest rubbing a few drops of an herbal tincture of echinacea (mixed with warm water) directly onto the affected skin. Alternatively, fresh lemon juice applied to the sore spots will help relieve mange, while a zinc supplement (or one teaspoon of pumpkin seeds, high in zinc) will work to restore a coat damaged by mange.
SOURCE—Glenn W. Geelhoed, M.D., and Jean Barilla, M.S., Natural
Health Secrets From Around the World (1997), Keats Publishing, P.O.
Box 876, 27 Pine Street, New Canaan, CT 06840; tel: 203-966-8721;
Posted by xxxxxx on March 18, 1999 at 13:30:28:
In Reply to: Here is one herbal remedy from an alternative med site - glad you saved the pup posted by xxxxxx on March 17, 1999 at 17:04:08:
If you give the zinc, make sure it is chelated zinc and that you give a small dog (under 50 lb) 15 mg. per day. You can get too much zinc, and chelated is the best delivery. And it's true, it's very good for healing skin. I am using on a dog right now to help clear up mange. You didn't say: is it demodectic mange or sarcoptic? And one more herbal remedy: get either dried comfrey and make a strong tea from it and pour/dab that on the dog, or if you can't find it dried at your health food store, try comfrey tincture mixed with some water to dab on. This is a powerful healer. By the way, never use comfrey internally.
Zinc-responsive dermatosis in northern-breed dogs: 17 cases (1990-1996).
Colombini S, Dunstan RW
Animal Health Diagnostic Laboratory, College of Veterinary Medicine, Michigan State University, East Lansing 48824, USA.
OBJECTIVE: To determine the response rate of zinc-responsive dermatosis to zinc supplementation, the optimal dosage of zinc required for resolution of lesions, the rate of recurrence of lesions, and to develop recommendations for maintenance dosages of zinc to be administered to dogs with this type of zinc-responsive dermatosis. DESIGN: Retrospective case series. ANIMALS: 17 northern-breed dogs with a diagnosis of zinc-responsive dermatosis. PROCEDURE: Histologic evaluation of skin biopsy specimens and review of medical records. Additional information was obtained from veterinarians and owners via a telephone questionnaire. RESULTS: In 12 of 17 dogs, lesions were unilateral initially, then became symmetrical as the disease progressed. Pyoderma was evident in 5 of 17 dogs, whereas 10 were pruritic. Most lesions initially developed between September and April, and 12 of 17 dogs developed lesions in February, October, and November. Initial dosages of zinc supplement ranged from 0.8 to 4.6 mg/kg of body weight/d (0.36 to 2.09 mg/lb/d). Effective/ maintenance dosages ranged from 0.5 mg/kg (0.23 mg/lb), twice weekly, to 8.0 mg/kg/d (3.6 mg/lb/d). Fifteen of 17 dogs had complete resolution of lesions after zinc supplementation. Lesions recurred in 9 of 16 dogs. Approximately half of the recurrent lesions were a result of a missed dose or a decrease in dosage or frequency of zinc supplementation. CLINICAL IMPLICATIONS: An initial dosage of zinc supplement of 1.0 mg of elemental zinc/kg (0.45 mg of elemental zinc/lb), PO, every 24 hours is recommended. Treatment should be continued for 1 month to determine response to treatment, and the daily dosage should be increased by 50% if the initial dosage is not effective. Dogs are prone to recurrence of lesions if a dose of zinc is missed or the dosage or frequency is decreased.
Posted by xxxxxx on March 11, 1999 at 00:25:18:
At the shelter I work at, we treat the demodex with Ivomectin as well as with the dip (depending upon how bad the case is) If the mange is light, we don't dip, but if it resembles road rash (as I call it) then we dip because the only way to kill the mites is to use the dip (and to make the dog bleed)...Ivomec is an oral medication so there is no injection to be made.
Posted by xxxxxx on March 15, 1999 at 03:32:00:
In Reply to: Demodectic mange posted by xxxxxx on March 09, 1999 at 22:45:35:
If you don't want to have your dog dipped (I dipped mine and it worked great), try buying a Preventic Tick collar. It's made from mitaban which is the same thing in the dips. There was a post several months back that said this is what the vet had
Posted by xxxxxx on April 02, 1999 at 12:06:20:
In Reply to: Can you believe Kaiser has demodex too?.........msg posted by xxxxxx on April 01, 1999 at 17:10:57:
Cooper had demodex (generalized) as a pup. My vets think he was vaccinated too much, too soon. Here's what we did for him:
1. vitamin C
2. vitamin E
3. brewer's yeast
6. thymus gland extract
7. sulfur (prescribed by holistic vet)
8. liquid b-complex w/iron
9. weekly mitaban dips for 3 weeks & then 2 more at 2-week intervals
He seemed to pop out of it pretty fast. My vet also recommended a benzoyl peroxide (sp) shampoo to flush the hair follicles.I've also heard of people using the Preventic tick collar for demodex. It's made from the same stuff that is used for the dips.
Posted by xxxxxx on April 01, 1999 at 18:24:16:
In Reply to: Re: you treat them locally and sometimes internall but:::::: posted by xxxxxx on April 01, 1999 at 17:51:57:
a special shampoo such as Etiderm or one other which I can't remember. So you treat if it is just localized? My vet says more often than not, they go away and that is the last you see of them. He only treats if it "travels" and becomes generalized. What do you think? It was my holistic and acupuncture vet who recommended the shampoo. She said to rub it in with a small brush of some sort.
Posted by xxxxxxon April 15, 1999 at 07:32:56:
Re: Pug pup's demodectic mange
Your dog will not have mange for long...maybe 4 weeks depending on the severity. His treatment will solve the problem. Young dogs are prime candidates for mange because their immune systems are not strong enough to ward it off. I have brought up two pups who had mange, one had it so badly he was practically hairless. Both are now healthy 1-2 yr olds. If the dips don't work for you, ask the vet to give your dog a mange shot. Mange is so bad in my area that vets don't bother with dips, but instead just administer shots. Also, give your dog a dose of vit. E in his food, as it will help sooth his irritated skin. Good luck.
Orson is still doing well--his mange has not gotten worse, and I believe the spots are getting less red and irritated. It will take a while for the hair to start growing back, of course, but the fact there are no more spots, and those there were are better, tells you we're undoubtedly getting out of the woods. Here is the regimen:
Home-cooked, all natural diet from Dr. Pitcairn's book (Orson loves mom's cooking!)
The homeopathic *sulphur*, 30c, twice a day
Four drops of both Black Walnut Hull and Echinachea tinctures mixed in a little water, three times per day
A mixture of the two tinctures above, full strength,dabbed on the spots once a day.
On his food, twice a day, (which basically includes finely ground fresh veggies as well as the base diet of oats, cooked ground beef and turkey, and some cottage cheese), I add the following:
100 iu vitamin E
15 mg. COQ10
300 mg. Vitamin C
1 Tablespoon aloe vera juice with more vitamin C mixed in
1 Tablespoon "Missing Link" powder (this stuff is wonderful)
15 mg. of chelated zinc (great for skin)
Some of the oil used for skin and coat enhancement (lineolic acid, etc.)