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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Jamie is 14wks and the most barky puppy I've ever had. It's not cute or endearing and contrary to previous advice I am concerned it is not something she will "grow out of".
I live in a residential neighborhood and if it's irritating me - I'm sure it's irritating the neighbors.
I am not talking about just puppy play/excited barking.
This is demand/defiant barking.
She's told no/off/out...she barks in your face.
Treats, food, outside not happening quickly enough ...she barks in your face.
Pretty much anytime she doesn't get her own way she barks.
I have tried waiting till she is quiet and using the quiet command and treating . Problem is that I think she now realizes that she can bark as a precursor to getting a treat for quiet.
I'm at a loss.
Do I just completely ignore and hope she realizes barking doesn't work ?
Unfortunately when you try to ignore her she will attack your leg.
Maybe leave her on a leash in the house and crate timeout for demand/defiant barking ?
I asked the breeder since neither of my two were ever this vocal but her response was
"we encourage our dogs to bark...but they are sport dogs".
(and they are also in the country not close to neighbors on either side)

Please don't get me wrong - I adore Jamie for many reasons. I am just genuinely concerned that this may become an issue. Maybe it is "just a puppy thing" and she will outgrow it ...but I have not had a pup this vocal before !
 

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Hi, it’s Andre
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In this case she barks for your attention, so you just paying attention to her and rewarding her with treats is encouraging the behavior. Try the ignoring idea - when she starts to bark at you say no and turn away from her so your back is to her and ignore all interactions with her until the moment she stops her yapping and you can mark and reward. As soon as the barking begins again, same thing again. I have seen some people say no, turn around and leave the room as a more extreme option and as soon as the pup stops barking you come back inside and reward.

I am no trainer but I saw a video somewhere about that and maybe it is worth a shot giving it a try.
 

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So I have a puppy for a couple of weeks and he's going this. I'm ignoring it. I won't even acknowledge him until he stops. BUT, he's 8 weeks old and is going to his owner in 2 weeks. He's very loud.
 

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Whenever someone says ignore bad behavior and they'll outgrow it, I suggest the opposite.

To me, just turning around (while she attacks your legs) or leaving the room is akin to stuffing your fingers in your ears. Correct the poor behavior....

She actually barks at you to go out, you're too slow and she barks at you defiantly and if you ignore that she "attacks" bites at your leg. There's a lot wrong with this and positive whatever or ignoring doesn't address it imo
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Whenever someone says ignore bad behavior and they'll outgrow it, I suggest the opposite.

To me, just turning around (while she attacks your legs) or leaving the room is akin to stuffing your fingers in your ears. Correct the poor behavior....

She actually barks at you to go out, you're too slow and she barks at you defiantly and if you ignore that she "attacks" bites at your leg. There's a lot wrong with this and positive whatever or ignoring doesn't address it imo
What would your approach be for a 14 wk old ? I certainly would like to correct this... without shutting her down that is. And yes, when you turn your back she nips & bites at pants/ankle/shoes to get your attention.
 

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Negative punishment can be very effective. I wouldn’t want to positively punish such a young pup. How you do it it is critical. So is consistently.
 

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Timing is critical in training. If the pup is at the door barking to go out, quickly let her out. Same for barking to come back in. Biting and barking at your legs is a different behavioral topography. At a later age , positive punishment can be useful. You have to adjust training to the individual dog.
 

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It also sounds like she barks when she is frustrated and doesn't know how to access what she wants. She wants the treat you have, but doesn't know how to get it so she barks at you. I like using a markers because it provides instant info to a dog, yes that is correct and reinforcement is on the way. Using words like no and off can also be very frustrating for some dogs since it doesn't provide any real info other than don't do that. If I say no to a puppy I quickly follow it up with direction to something I do want them to do. IE puppy is jumping on me, I don't just say no or off, I give a cue for what is an appropriate behavior like sit or down. Also beware of behavior chains like dog jumps on you, you say "No! Sit!" dog sits and you reward them. The behavior chain has become in order to get reward for sitting I first must jump up.

i also recommend videoing some training sessions and then go watch it back a few time, watch her, watch your mechanics, see what triggers her. Often we are doing things and don't even realize it.

She has also learned that barking works so ignoring and waiting for the behavior to reach the point of extinction will take time and you will likely see it get worse before it stops.
 

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@WNGD - agreed. at 14 weeks it's time to say no. Especially when the biting appears to be out of frustration rather than the typical puppy lack of bite inhibition.
 

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Could you describe one of the situations in detail to see what leads to her frustration?
 

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What would your approach be for a 14 wk old ? I certainly would like to correct this... without shutting her down that is. And yes, when you turn your back she nips & bites at pants/ankle/shoes to get your attention.
My no is very much different than your no or others might be. And my dog would never be allowed to bite me in frustration uninvited. As you may have seen 100X in biting puppy threads, after 3-4 months, they get a very vocal no and mild correction that escalates to a firm correction (not in anger) once I'm sure they know the correct and desired action.

Harley once started barking, being very excited when it was evident we were going for a walk. He's spin around a bit in the hallway. He's knock your boots over, make it difficult to get to your coat and although it could be seen as funny or cute, it was annoying and potentially dangerous for others.

He got a no, a sterner no, a step in close to him and a hard look. He sat on his own and vibrated in silence. It's the relationship we developed where fair commands are accepted unconditionally.

A lot of these actions can by pup frustration at not getting what he wants, at not being able to communicate or an expression of not fully accepting your role in the relationship.

None of my dogs have ever shut down through training and obedience. It's the opposite; they are so confident, they thrive with much less time needing to be corrected and more time doing what dogs are natural to do.
 

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My no is very much different than your no or others might be. And my dog would never be allowed to bite me in frustration uninvited. As you may have seen 100X in biting puppy threads, after 3-4 months, they get a very vocal no and mild correction that escalates to a firm correction (not in anger) once I'm sure they know the correct and desired action.

Harley once started barking, being very excited when it was evident we were going for a walk. He's spin around a bit in the hallway. He's knock your boots over, make it difficult to get to your coat and although it could be seen as funny or cute, it was annoying and potentially dangerous for others.

He got a no, a sterner no, a step in close to him and a hard look. He sat on his own and vibrated in silence. It's the relationship we developed where fair commands are accepted unconditionally.

A lot of these actions can by pup frustration at not getting what he wants, at not being able to communicate or an expression of not fully accepting your role in the relationship.

None of my dogs have ever shut down through training and obedience. It's the opposite; they are so confident, they thrive with much less time needing to be corrected and more time doing what dogs are natural to do.
So when Harley was a pup you would redirect to a sit or a down when the pup was doing something you did not want?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well tonight when she was barking about her dinner being prepared (It does seem like excitement/frustration/impatience) I went on the other side of the baby gate and turned my back on her. When she was quiet I came back in with "good quiet" . I also had her sit - a couple of times since we have no duration on it yet. No barking or nipping from prep till when she received dinner. I think this may have potential for her realizing that being pushy does not have the desired effect ?
 

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Well tonight when she was barking about her dinner being prepared (It does seem like excitement/frustration/impatience) I went on the other side of the baby gate and turned my back on her. When she was quiet I came back in with "good quiet" . I also had her sit - a couple of times since we have no duration on it yet. No barking or nipping from prep till when she received dinner. I think this may have potential for her realizing that being pushy does not have the desired effect ?
Dinner time is an awesome time for training.
 
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So when Harley was a pup you would redirect to a sit or a down when the pup was doing something you did not want?
Sometimes redirecting to the appropriate behavior gets rewarded. But often he knew by my tone, look and body language that the behavior was not wanted and he would simply stop because he could obviously tell the behavior was not what I wanted. I found that stopping biting, jumping or barking was easily retarded if it was caught early, had not become a habit and was corrected early. Harley is a pleaser, Rogan is more hard headed.

"Corrected" has so many definitions and levels. It need not be necessarily harsh or angry.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Could you describe one of the situations in detail to see what leads to her frustration?
-Being told "no" if she is chewing something inappropriate - but honestly sometimes I'm tired and forget to follow "don't do that" with "do this instead"
-When I am getting ready to take her outside ..like the time it takes to put on jacket , hat etc . This also involved biting at pants/shoes/ankles
-Getting her dinner ready
-When she has too much energy in the house - but not really counting that one- and I usually take her out to burn off energy ( or house fetch if it's late) with a little training after to tire her mind too
It works out to a lot of barking in a day.

Totally funny one that has no relevance...today she saw my printer in action for the first time. She gave the printer a royal "telling off" also.
 

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Sometimes redirecting to the appropriate behavior gets rewarded. But often he knew by my tone, look and body language that the behavior was not wanted and he would simply stop because he could obviously tell the behavior was not what I wanted. I found that stopping biting, jumping or barking was easily retarded if it was caught early, had not become a habit and was corrected early. Harley is a pleaser, Rogan is more hard headed.

"Corrected" has so many definitions and levels. It need not be necessarily harsh or angry.
I have being trying to figure out what everyone does for their corrections and since its such a broad term it is quite hard. Thank you for your assistance!
 

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I would incorporate little training and impulse control games into everything. For chewing I‘d use redirection, waiting to go outside - little games like tossing a cookie, a ball, catch, touch it etc, for dinner - stationing on a bed or mat, too much energy - play and obedience games Put her barking on cue. Barking is absolutely self reinforcing so I would not just ignore but I also would not want to squash that little defiant spirit either.
 

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Well tonight when she was barking about her dinner being prepared (It does seem like excitement/frustration/impatience) I went on the other side of the baby gate and turned my back on her. When she was quiet I came back in with "good quiet" . I also had her sit - a couple of times since we have no duration on it yet. No barking or nipping from prep till when she received dinner. I think this may have potential for her realizing that being pushy does not have the desired effect ?
Does your breed keep her dogs in the home or are they kept in an outdoor kennel?
 
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