German Shepherds Forum banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
571 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is it normal for a 12-week old puppy to whine and yelp at 130 dB whenever I leave the room or put him in the crate to brush my teeth, do laundry, use the restroom, etc.? I have been fortunate enough to spend basically the whole time with him for the last two weeks, but that will be ending as I start working more (pretty flexible schedule, but still). It really sounds like the pup thinks he's dying when I leave the room. Is this separation anxiety or some normal kind of thing? Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
364 Posts
Yup. Lol. My 5month old velcro puppy would howl like someone was murdering her if I tried to shower with the door closed. What worked for me was 1) crate training. We can leave her alone now and trust her to be quiet. 2) Leaving the house 50 times and coming back. I would walk out and come right back in before she had a chance to cry. Our trainer suggested it and it was really effective. It got old real fast when you have to walk out 50 times. ? but it was really effective.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,366 Posts
Like anything else, this pup needs to practice having time alone. Start with many small moments and try not return while he is pitching a fit. It might mean hoping he'll catch his breath long enough so you can come back when he is quiet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
711 Posts
I just read about some stuffed toy for puppies that has an actual audible heartbeat noise that you put in puppy's

crate. Some reviewers say they really work for separation anxiety and puppy curls up next to toy and falls asleep.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,041 Posts
I think it is normal. I had one who just screamed bloody murder when I left him alone. I think it is best to start teaching them right off the bat that they will be left and it's okay. I think it is totally normal for a baby to try and alert its caretaker that it thinks iit has been forgotten. They don't know any better.

They learn by repetition of being left and us coming back but if they scream the whole time then they think their screaming brought you back. So you do have to wait them out, which is hard. My one was tough but we got through it and he is a totally balanced adult now who is fine to be alone loose, crated, kenneled, in the home, the truck, wherever.

Had I not worked through this with him when he was teeny I dread to think how awful he could be now that he is a 90lb dog. I remember him grabbing his crate bars and biting and pulling but he did not have the strength to do anything, now imagine if he still had that behavior as a 90lb adult? Persevere!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Someone is asking whether it is normal for a GSD to whine and yelp because (insert your favorite reason)? LOL!

OMG, yes. They talk about everything and they will follow you from room to room and feel deprived if you leave their sight for even a moment. Your best bet is just to count on staying within arm's reach of your GSD 24/7, and some sort of physical contact such as their paw on your foot while they sleep may be required.

You know that word "shepherd" in their name? That's their life. Seriously. That GSD will probably follow you around and take notes on everything you do just to make sure you are safe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,851 Posts
I dont find this behavior normal but more of a created behavior. If the pup is sick,hungry thirsty or needs to go potty etc then I can see howling. Other then that nope not normal. This is most likely created and he learned he screams u come running u may not be doing that now but in the first week I’m sure you did. Pups are smart so imo if he not sick, hungry etc then ignore completely till he stops as soon as he goes let him out and give treat or give treat while still in crate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Is it normal for a 12-week old puppy to whine and yelp at 130 dB whenever I leave the room or put him in the crate to brush my teeth, do laundry, use the restroom, etc.? I have been fortunate enough to spend basically the whole time with him for the last two weeks, but that will be ending as I start working more (pretty flexible schedule, but still). It really sounds like the pup thinks he's dying when I leave the room. Is this separation anxiety or some normal kind of thing? Thanks.
I know this will sound like heresy to some but that reaction is one reason I have never crated any of my puppies. For example, I had one GSD that I could teach everything instantly. If I did something twice the same way, we were done with the training. No treats or praise were even required.

There was one exception to that. He would refuse to do any command such as "stay" or "fetch" that required him to be more than a few feet away from me. He viewed those commands as punishment and sat there crying wondering what he had done that I would treat him so cruelly as to make him stay fifteen feet away. When I finally called him, he came to my feet and wept and begged forgiveness for whatever he had done that caused this great trouble in our friendship that I didn't want to be touching him.

I got the same reaction from crating him. He didn't regard the crate as "secure". He regarded it as "punishment." I got the same reaction from my current two puppies. They prefer to be with me, whatever. They don't know what that crate is about. As others have said, get them used to your absence in small increments.

Mine do not have pathological separation anxiety when I am gone. Just be careful what "toys" you leave lying around when you go. A "toy" is anything that weighs less than 50 pounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
364 Posts
Someone is asking whether it is normal for a GSD to whine and yelp because (insert your favorite reason)? LOL!

OMG, yes. They talk about everything and they will follow you from room to room and feel deprived if you leave their sight for even a moment. Your best bet is just to count on staying within arm's reach of your GSD 24/7, and some sort of physical contact such as their paw on your foot while they sleep may be required.

You know that word "shepherd" in their name? That's their life. Seriously. That GSD will probably follow you around and take notes on everything you do just to make sure you are safe.
?? Cracked up laughing when I read that! They totally do take notes I swear. Here’s my GS right now! Both paws on me making sure I don’t leave while she decimates a bully stick.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,277 Posts
Is it normal for a 12-week old puppy to whine and yelp at 130 dB whenever I leave the room or put him in the crate to brush my teeth, do laundry, use the restroom, etc.? I have been fortunate enough to spend basically the whole time with him for the last two weeks, but that will be ending as I start working more (pretty flexible schedule, but still). It really sounds like the pup thinks he's dying when I leave the room. Is this separation anxiety or some normal kind of thing? Thanks.

This is exactly why the whole "begin as you mean to continue" thing is important.

You removed a baby puppy from all things familiar and taught him that you were the whole world, and now you have the audacity to prevent him from orbiting his sun! :grin2:

Shadow sobbed, yes sobbed, when I was out of sight. And was capable of, and willing to, scream the roof down if someone removed her from my immediate vicinity. The poor vet tech didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
Now that he has trained you to come running this will take longer. Unless there is a risk of actual harm put him in his crate with a stuffed kong or some other distraction that is safe and WALK AWAY! It's pretty normal for them to voice their displeasure. If you feel a need crank up the tunes to drown out the sound.
Dogs view pretty much anything that stops them from being completely self serving as some form of punishment. Bud always seemed pretty bummed that I would put a stop to rolling in decaying animals. Sabi was a bit disgusted that I decided when and how much she should eat. Lex was horribly upset that I turned off the TV at night. Aside from needing to be separate from me, I also don't allow eating road kill on my furniture or the eating of feces. We need dogs to do all sorts of things that go against their nature to make them tolerable house mates.
Before you buy into the "crates are cruel and unnecessary" ( not saying you would)I caution you to think this through and then decide.
If your pup is ever seriously injured or ill he will need to be crated.
If you are ever injured or ill he may need to be crated.
If he ever gets lost and picked up he will be kenneled or crated.
If you have to travel with or board him he will be kenneled or crated.

All of these scenarios are stressful enough. And yes if you don't put a stop to this behavior you could be heading toward separation anxiety.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,041 Posts
This is exactly why the whole "begin as you mean to continue" thing is important.

You removed a baby puppy from all things familiar and taught him that you were the whole world, and now you have the audacity to prevent him from orbiting his sun! :grin2:

Shadow sobbed, yes sobbed, when I was out of sight. And was capable of, and willing to, scream the roof down if someone removed her from my immediate vicinity. The poor vet tech didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
Now that he has trained you to come running this will take longer. Unless there is a risk of actual harm put him in his crate with a stuffed kong or some other distraction that is safe and WALK AWAY! It's pretty normal for them to voice their displeasure. If you feel a need crank up the tunes to drown out the sound.
Dogs view pretty much anything that stops them from being completely self serving as some form of punishment. Bud always seemed pretty bummed that I would put a stop to rolling in decaying animals. Sabi was a bit disgusted that I decided when and how much she should eat. Lex was horribly upset that I turned off the TV at night. Aside from needing to be separate from me, I also don't allow eating road kill on my furniture or the eating of feces. We need dogs to do all sorts of things that go against their nature to make them tolerable house mates.
Before you buy into the "crates are cruel and unnecessary" ( not saying you would)I caution you to think this through and then decide.
If your pup is ever seriously injured or ill he will need to be crated.
If you are ever injured or ill he may need to be crated.
If he ever gets lost and picked up he will be kenneled or crated.
If you have to travel with or board him he will be kenneled or crated.

All of these scenarios are stressful enough. And yes if you don't put a stop to this behavior you could be heading toward separation anxiety.
100% agree. You can absolutely create a monster by not teaching them confinement and alone time as babies. We teach them what is okay, and then it's okay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,010 Posts
What worked for me was crate training. With that, I kind of taught her the kennel is her "safe space" by putting her in the kennel a few times throughout the day for her to take naps. She's 12 months now and she prefers to sleep in it. Like I'll have her up on the bed, then if I get close to her she'll look at me like "really?", then hops off the bed and goes in her kennel and plops down lol.

Crate training.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
100% agree. You can absolutely create a monster by not teaching them confinement and alone time as babies. We teach them what is okay, and then it's okay.
My family has had lots of dogs over the years. None of them were crate-trained. I never even heard of the idea until I was an adult. All the dogs lived right next to the humans 24/7. None of them ever turned into "monsters".

A quick search of the Internet shows that there doesn't seem to be any valid scientific evidence proving that crate training is necessary, or even useful. It seems to me it is like the idea that dogs are trying to dominate humans -- like my ten-pound terrier thinks she can dominate me. Given the thousands of years that people have raised dogs without crates and done perfectly fine, the idea that crating is necessary seems dubious.

What kind of a "monster" are you talking about that I have never seen?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
364 Posts
100% agree. You can absolutely create a monster by not teaching them confinement and alone time as babies. We teach them what is okay, and then it's okay.
My family has had lots of dogs over the years. None of them were crate-trained. I never even heard of the idea until I was an adult. All the dogs lived right next to the humans 24/7. None of them ever turned into "monsters".

A quick search of the Internet shows that there doesn't seem to be any valid scientific evidence proving that crate training is necessary, or even useful. It seems to me it is like the idea that dogs are trying to dominate humans -- like my ten-pound terrier thinks she can dominate me. Given the thousands of years that people have raised dogs without crates and done perfectly fine, the idea that crating is necessary seems dubious.

What kind of a "monster" are you talking about that I have never seen?
I would assume she was talking about all the shelter dogs with separation anxiety so extreme that they were surrendered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,029 Posts
My puppy screamed like a banshee if I was out of sight and it took a few months to overcome it. He came to me as a Velcro dog and he remains a Velcro dog at almost 2 years of age. And not because I deprived him of alone time. I worked full time since the day I got him.

I’ve had puppies before...this wasn’t my first rodeo...but I’ve never had one before where I couldn’t even be out of his sight without him screaming like I was lighting his body on fire.

And, before anyone asks, I crate trained him, I never came running when he cried, I never opened his crate while he was crying, I left the house for work every day while he was alone a few hours at a time...but if he knew I was home and out of his sight, holy heck. He has a VERY high pack drive.

He was fine in his crate if he could look directly at me. He was even fine with me leaving the house after a couple of weeks in his crate alone. His issue was me being in the house in a different room than him. That was rough. Although, I’m happy to say he’s fine now. But those first few months? Ugh.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,041 Posts
My family has had lots of dogs over the years. None of them were crate-trained. I never even heard of the idea until I was an adult. All the dogs lived right next to the humans 24/7. None of them ever turned into "monsters".

A quick search of the Internet shows that there doesn't seem to be any valid scientific evidence proving that crate training is necessary, or even useful. It seems to me it is like the idea that dogs are trying to dominate humans -- like my ten-pound terrier thinks she can dominate me. Given the thousands of years that people have raised dogs without crates and done perfectly fine, the idea that crating is necessary seems dubious.

What kind of a "monster" are you talking about that I have never seen?
Sure people raise dogs without crates all the time. I just believe strongly it is the best way to teach a dog how to act in the house and when/where to toilet.

I teach my dogs how to act by being present and supervising. They are never unsupervised in the house until they are old enough to act the way I have taught them to act. I have zero tolerance for going to the bathroom indoors or destroying stuff.

I don't care if you use a crate or not, although obviously I believe it's the most direct way to achieve the dog I want. What's important is that you teach the dog to be alone and if they need to have a tantrum let them have it when they are little. And because sometimes you need to let them go ahead and have that tantrum, I like them confined to a crate so they don't learn to take out their frustration by being destructive.

The monster I am referring to is when you don't see your puppy through that, and then as an adult they have that same strong response to being left alone but now they are big and strong and able to wreck your house. In this world we live in I believe dogs have a way better time of it if they learn to be confined and to settle down and wait to be let out.

one dog I knew comes to mind. Owner lived in an apartment and the neighbors complained about the puppy crying. So she rushed to make it quiet every time it cried and never made it learn to be alone. The dog had such destructive and uncontrollable behavior as an adult that it had to be rehomed and was completely unmanageable: drooling, chewing out of crates to the point of harming itself. I don't know if the second home worked out. This dog had major problems.

I don't board my dogs but they've had to be left at the vet for things and be kenneled. They have been just fine with it.

My dogs start with a small area when they are unsupervised and graduate to bigger and bigger areas as they prove they know how to act. They get tons of exercise, tons of mental stimulation, they are with me a lot. They can be with me more because they can wait patiently in a crate. They get to do awesome things like compete in lots of different sports because they are crate trained.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,714 Posts
A quick search of the Internet shows that there doesn't seem to be any valid scientific evidence proving that crate training is necessary, or even useful.
That is a very odd comment. If you don't find crate training necessary, then for you it probably isn't. So don't do it. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of very valid reasons to crate train, just that they may not apply to you. That's perfectly okay. I crate train puppies as an aid to housebreaking. I crate train puppies so they can't get into trouble and maybe harm themselves when I can't directly supervise, or when they get overtired and need a little break to take a nap. Or if the humans need a little break from a busy, bitey puppy, lol. Sometimes you just need to get things done (take a shower, clean house, make dinner, eat a meal) and it can sometimes be impossible to do those things and entertain a puppy at the same time. I crate train my dogs because I participate in dog sports that require that dogs be confined when they're not actively competing - this is one instance where it's absolutely necessary. I crate train my dogs so if they need to overnight at the vet they're not going to freak out. I crate train my dogs because I crate them in the car when we go places and I want them calm and comfortable. My dogs sleep in their crates in our bedroom at night so we can all get a good nights sleep. They go in on their own, and wait for us to close the door, after they get their bedtime cookie. I find all of the above extremely useful. Perhaps you wouldn't. That's perfectly fine.

And about that lack of "scientific evidence"? Why on earth would I need science to tell me what's best for my lifestyle and my dogs?

It seems to me it is like the idea that dogs are trying to dominate humans -- like my ten-pound terrier thinks she can dominate me.
I'm not sure where you got that idea. Crating has nothing to do with dominance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,277 Posts
My family has had lots of dogs over the years. None of them were crate-trained. I never even heard of the idea until I was an adult. All the dogs lived right next to the humans 24/7. None of them ever turned into "monsters".

A quick search of the Internet shows that there doesn't seem to be any valid scientific evidence proving that crate training is necessary, or even useful. It seems to me it is like the idea that dogs are trying to dominate humans -- like my ten-pound terrier thinks she can dominate me. Given the thousands of years that people have raised dogs without crates and done perfectly fine, the idea that crating is necessary seems dubious.

What kind of a "monster" are you talking about that I have never seen?

This mentality drives me crazy. Fifty years ago dogs slept outside, the lucky ones had dog houses. Fifty years ago if your dog got sick you shot it, if it disappeared you got a new one, if it got pregnant all the neighbors got pups. Fifty years ago dogs did work. No one kept a collie or a shepherd in an apartment, doggie daycares didn't exist and the idea that anyone would spend money on a dog that didn't work was a joke.

Get over it.


Ask any vet tech about the dogs that need surgery and wake up so freaked out to find themselves in crates that they lose it. A friend of mine lost her dog when having survived surgery after being attacked and mauled by rez dogs it flipped out in the crate and tore a bunch of sutures loose.

How about the stroke victim who's dog ends up in a shelter.


I have had dozens of dogs dumped in my "lap" who's biggest problem was the owner but NOW they are needing new homes because it was cruel to crate/train/speuter whatever.

Yes puppies cry in crates, just like toddlers cry at daycare. You raise them to have the best possible chance at surviving this world without you because crap happens. And realistically the better trained and behaved your dog is, the more adaptable and issue free the better it's chances at surviving the gauntlet should the unthinkable happen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,041 Posts
This mentality drives me crazy. Fifty years ago dogs slept outside, the lucky ones had dog houses. Fifty years ago if your dog got sick you shot it, if it disappeared you got a new one, if it got pregnant all the neighbors got pups. Fifty years ago dogs did work. No one kept a collie or a shepherd in an apartment, doggie daycares didn't exist and the idea that anyone would spend money on a dog that didn't work was a joke.

Get over it.


Ask any vet tech about the dogs that need surgery and wake up so freaked out to find themselves in crates that they lose it. A friend of mine lost her dog when having survived surgery after being attacked and mauled by rez dogs it flipped out in the crate and tore a bunch of sutures loose.

How about the stroke victim who's dog ends up in a shelter.


I have had dozens of dogs dumped in my "lap" who's biggest problem was the owner but NOW they are needing new homes because it was cruel to crate/train/speuter whatever.

Yes puppies cry in crates, just like toddlers cry at daycare. You raise them to have the best possible chance at surviving this world without you because crap happens. And realistically the better trained and behaved your dog is, the more adaptable and issue free the better it's chances at surviving the gauntlet should the unthinkable happen.
I can't find an applause emoji.

Not even 50 years either. I am 38 and I remember my best friend's neighborhood, all the dogs just ran loose together all day. They got in fights, of course probably nobody knew for sure who started what or cared. They went home at night to sleep. Sometimes one went missing. And my best friend's awesome big white shepherd got killed because he was hit by a car. I am quite sure they didn't own a crate either.

There's all sorts of different lifestyles with dogs. My old road in Florida had its fair share of free roaming dogs who sometimes lived in an outdoor kennel, sometimes escaped, some just ran loose all the time and slept under the house.

None of those things are ways I want my dogs to live.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top