[Verivus]

Hi,

I joined this forum to get some expert opinions on whether or not this sounds viable.

I want to get a male 'old world' Czech GSD puppy next year, around August 2011. However, I have some specific criteria that the pup must have: excellent nerve and discretion, an 'alpha male' of his litter, a pup that will grow up to have true man-stopping power; also I don't want the excessive prey drive that some of the newer Czech lines have. Is it fruitless to try to stack the odds in my favor by choosing sire/dam pairs with pedigrees that have a heavy emphasis on z PS lines and police dogs? Do you know any kennels that may pique my interest?

An example pedigree:
Astor Von Der Suden - German shepherd dog

 

[Zoeys mom]

What will this dog be used for?

 

[Verivus]

I intend to train the pup in personal protection. As of right now I don't think I'll be participating in any sport competitions. I just prefer old world Czech GSDs. I have done my research on the working/show lines, and the different main lines (East/West German, Czech, American) so I know what I'm getting into.

 

[Zoeys mom]

Having a personal protection dog is a huge responsibility and will take a lot of training for you as well as the dog. I'm no expert on lines by far, but it was my understanding even older Czech lines possessed a lot of prey drive and it was part of their effectiveness? I may be wrong though honestly. If however, you really need a personal protection dog going for lines that have produced other protection and K-9 animals is a good start for sure. I just have to add almost any GSD is going to be highly protective of their family, somewhat suspicious of strangers, and aloof. Their look, reputation, and bark alone are a huge deterrence and if this is your first GSD Czech lines are definitely not a starter GSD. But, if you are willing to have yourself trained as much as the dog and spend some time maybe with the different lines before purchasing this dog your odds of success and happiness will increase

 

[Lucy Dog]

If you're serious about getting a czech working line dog and actually putting it to work, i'd recommend you speak to Chris Wild of Wildhaus kennels. I actually don't know her personally or have one of her dogs, but there are quite a few people here who do and she is also a very active member here. Her user name is Chris Wild.

I've read her posts and she really knows what she's talking about. She is very knowledgeable about the lines you are looking for and would be a good start if you're interested. My recommendation is to at least speak to her and get her professional opinion.

 

[Verivus]

It's the challenge I find the most fun. I like training dogs that won't just hang onto my every word, eager to please. I already have a dog that fills the 'cuddlebug' role so I have no problem having an aloof, more independent dog. I also want a dog that is more then willing to step up to the plate when necessary, a dog I can trust my life with when it comes down to it - especially since I tend to go out during the evenings/late nights (I live in Arizona). I know GSDs are typically deterrant dogs anyway and could fulfill most of what I want, but I want a trained protection dog.

 

[Zoeys mom]

Oh well your trained protection dog will not be independent with you and will be a total cuddlebug- that is a GSD,lol I still don't see your need for a protection dog and hope you understand if your dog attacks someone off of your property warranted and trained you will be held responsible in many states and your dog PTS. I envision you out late with this dog after a few drinks and worry this may happen to you GSD's are also easy to train biddable dogs who want to please you. The challenge is the amount of mental and physical stimulation they require to be happy. A bored and under exercised GSD can be destructive, develop OCD disorders, and have severe behavioral problems. An unsocialized GSD isa flat out liability with strange people and other dogs. I think you need to do a lot more research and assess what it is you actually need and can provide this dog

 

[Lucy Dog]

It's the challenge I find the most fun. I like training dogs that won't just hang onto my every word, eager to please. I already have a dog that fills the 'cuddlebug' role so I have no problem having an aloof, more independent dog. I also want a dog that is more then willing to step up to the plate when necessary, a dog I can trust my life with when it comes down to it - especially since I tend to go out during the evenings/late nights (I live in Arizona). I know GSDs are typically deterrant dogs anyway and could fulfill most of what I want, but I want a trained protection dog.

Most german shepherds get attached to "their person" by the hip once they develop that bond. If you want a more independent dog and end up with a german shepherd, you're not going to be happy. My GSD is literally attached at my hip every second of the day. Where I go, she follows. If she can't follow, she'll wait until I come back and start to follow again.

If you want a trained protection dog, expect to put in hours and hours of training for years, possibly it's whole life to get what you're saying you want. It's a life long commitment that I hope you're prepared to make. I hope you're ready to put in that kind of commitment because it's not going to just happen over the night. You're going to need the right lines and the right trainers.

 

[Verivus]

I would say it depends on the individual dog when it comes to being "attached to the hip". I've known GSDs that are like that, and then I've known other GSDs who were more content with lazing about on their own somewhere nearby (especially this one Czech GSD I know, definitely no cuddlebug though nice enough). To clarify, I never said I don't want another cuddlebug; if the pup turned out to be like that I wouldn't have a problem, but if the pup did turn out more independent I wouldn't have a problem either. I do realize protection training is a lifetime commitment. And I know I need the right lines/trainers, which is why I'm doing my research.

 

[Lucy Dog]

As I said in my above post, speak to Chris Wild. Send her a private message about what you're looking for and see if she's able to help and give you some advice. You will not be disappointed.

 

[Verivus]

Thank's Lucy, I'll definitely get on that.

 

[JakodaCD OA]

I guess I have to ask what is "old world czech"?

If the dog you posted you like, why not go to that breeder? why not go for an adult /older partially trained dog?

 

[jaggirl47]

A few good kennels that specialize in Czech dogs are

Van Den Heuvel Kennels German Shepherd Dogs Van Den Heuvel k9 406-458-6102
Shepherds By Design German Shepherd breeder, German Shepherd puppies,  Czech German Shepherd Puppies, 815-787-4618
Schraderhaus K9 SchraderhausK9.com - +1.253.843.1123 PST - German Shepherd Working Dogs
Alpine K9 Czech German Shepherd Dogs from Alpine K9
Dragon GSD Dragon German Shepherd, 623-388-0494, German Shepherd Puppies, Czech German Shepherd, Working Dogs, Personal Protection Dogs, Police, K9

I have a 4 1/2 month pup from Shepherds By Design and she is everything I could have asked for. A total brat and absolutely perfect.
I have also spoken with the owners of all of these kennels. They have all been a huge source of information for me. I think I could own Czech line dogs for 20 years and still need to go out for advice.
Good luck in your search. I am very happy everyday I went with my Czech line.

 

[atravis]

Cuddlebugs? HAH! As if.

Mulder is DDR/Czech, and hardly what I would consider a "cuddlebug". And attached to the hip he most certainly is NOT. Doesn't mean he isn't extremely bonded, he always has an eye out on me, and never misses a step I take... but he doesn't stand, doe-eyed, hanging on my every word. I honestly wouldn't like a dog like that, and GSDs most certainly do not uniformly fit into that description of them.

A chum of mine has two PPDs that hail from this kennel: New Page 1

I'll try and get her to post here for you, to offer more incite.

Edit: DUR! The dog you posted IS one of her dogs! Astor threw me off... Cain! lol

 

[jaggirl47]

Cuddlebugs? HAH! As if.

Mulder is DDR/Czech, and hardly what I would consider a "cuddlebug". And attached to the hip he most certainly is NOT. Doesn't mean he isn't extremely bonded, he always has an eye out on me, and never misses a step I take... but he doesn't stand, doe-eyed, hanging on my every word. I honestly wouldn't like a dog like that, and GSDs most certainly do not uniformly fit into that description of them.

A chum of mine has two PPDs that hail from this kennel: New Page 1

I'll try and get her to post here for you, to offer more incite.

Edit: DUR! The dog you posted IS one of her dogs! Astor threw me off... Cain! lol

Too true! lol My 10 y/o AL/WGSL/BYBL is a complete cuddlebug and follows me everywhere. My pup is so far from that definition! She will lay on me when she wants to be loved but that normally lasts no more than 5 minutes. lol

 

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

I think Chris is incredible, but WGWL seem to be her forte more, while someone like Cliff would be a resource for Czech dogs. I am going to move this thread to a section where he would perhaps see it.

 

[jaggirl47]

I think Chris is incredible, but WGWL seem to be her forte more, while someone like Cliff would be a resource for Czech dogs. I am going to move this thread to a section where he would perhaps see it.

You are so right! I completely forgot to add Cliff as a resource! He knows almost everything. lol

 

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

Now you're in trouble! :rofl:

 

[jaggirl47]

Now you're in trouble! :rofl:

What's bad is I just sent him a PM yesterday asking him a question!
Cliff, please don't be upset with me! :blush:

 

[holland]

So then maybe Cliff can explain what old world czech is-a dog with an old soul maybe??