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Grimm's coat is dry, crunchy, wire-y/brittle-feeling, with almost zero undercoat. It feels like a shaved salt-n-pepper Schnauzer.
Seems WAY shorter, stiffer, dryer hairs than there should be. The hairs on his head feel soft and normal, but on his body.. crunchiness reigns.


Grimm is getting a grain-free kibble, Orijen 6 Fresh Fish and no more raw mid-day meals, as he needs to be on all-kibble for now
so that he can go to send-away training soon.

As far as adding a fish oil and vitamin E supplement-- I am cautious on that idea, as the Orijen has 18% fat, and if I goof up and accidentally give him too much-- he gets pudding poops for days. Clearly, he is sensitive to amount of fat in diet. Maybe 1 capsule of fish oil & vit E would not upset his delicate balance?

I used to give him Prozyme for many many months, but felt it was not great for his poops. I have stopped Prozyme since a month and a half ago. Could stopping the enzyme mean he isn't able to absorb nutrients alone now? What should I do?

BIG question: Will being on an all-raw diet help with his crunchy coat? I know I need to wait a few months before I can switch completely, once and for all. (again, I had to stop all raw a month ago. he was getting 1 raw meal, 2 kibble meals)

Thanks for any crunchy-coat advice!
 

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Can you get organic virgin coconut oil there? The medium chain triglycerides in coconut oil are highly digestible, even for dogs with digestive issues. The usual dose is 1 tsp per 10 pounds of body weight, but you work up to that slowly, maybe just a teaspoon a day at first.

If he's having trouble with fats, and he's already eating a fish based diet, it's worth giving coconut oil a try rather than adding additional fish oil. My dogs love the taste, they'll lick it right off a spoon.
 

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Thyroid problem?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Would I see other symptoms with a thyroid issue? I hadn't thought of that.

I don't think I can get coconut oil here CassidysMom, but thank you for the idea.
 

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Looking at the recent topics~ your title and discription, I knew it was your post! Such a great writer you are...as far as Grimm's coat goes, I have no knowledge! Good luck with it, I can't do a thing with my hair, let alone the dogs...now the humid season is approaching and the frizzies are on the way:(( coconut oil sounds wonderful!
I feed raw, and my girls have beautiful coats, but I like my food cooked.
 

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oil in the diet might help if there isn't a bigger health issue. I saw this happen to my GSD when I put her on incontinence pills; I took her off and would rather clean up after her than have her fur looking so bad and if it was showing in her fur then I thought what else is it doing to her.
 

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One of my dog's hair is like that right now. She just blew her coat and her new one is soo short with almost no undercoat... She looks like she has lost 10 lbs even though she hasn't.... I'm interested to see what others have to say....
 

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IMO the dog needs more fat. In percentage to the protein level in the food he is eating the fat could be higher to match up and *could* be causing this issue (could be, nothing is certain of course.) I would not add more omega three however as there is plenty of that in the food, what I would add is a strong source of linoleic acid (Omega 6), like veggie oil, canola oil ect. Some dogs just have a higher linoleic fatty acid need than others and your dog is exhibiting the classic symptoms (dull, dry, brittle hair coat.)

Here is a link http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?articleid=666

JMO
Cherri
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the link, Cherrie!

OnyxsGirl, thanks for the writing compliment.
I wanna feed Grimm raw... as soon as he returns from the trainer's, I will give him a few weeks to settle back in-- then raw begins. (can get a mondo huuuge bag of cheap-o fresh turkey hearts here at the Russian market!)

I will look into the veggie oils for Omega 6s.

Actually, Grimm DID just totally blow his coat.

Can I at least report happy, 5-star poops, currently? I gotta have SOME good news!
 

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Yay for happy poops (we're still working on those here).

The only caveat I would give for adding more fat to the diet is that many SIBO dogs can't handle excessive fat without issue.

Also, most of us that supplement give Omega 3s, not Omega 6s since most foods (whether raw or kibble) contain more Omega 6s than 3s. I personally prefer to give Omegas from meat sources rather than vegetable ones since dogs are carnivores. JMHO. Gotta do what works for you and your dog, afterall.
 

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Thanks for the input, Jamie. It's been a day here... Grimm, who is housebroken totally, pee'd on the floor out of anxiety at being left 'alone' in our new home here while I went to the pharmacy. My new DH was here, but, Grimm felt overwhelmed. Normally, I leave him in his crate-- he has just shown me he is not quite yet ready to handle being left out of it when I leave the apartment.
I'll be placing his food dish in that spot for the next week, as a 'reminder'-- but <i am not mad at him at all. I understand what was behind it-- just too much, too soon! Mea culpa.

Yeah.. am not sure re adding more fats for a dog with sensitive gut.... I just can hardly wait until I can switch him to raw. Hanging in there...
 

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Quote: Thyroid problem?
That's what I thought of also -

Ray was found to be hypothyroid and the only thing that we noticed was that the fur on both of his sides was getting shorter and very brittle.
At the time, I happened to see our vet at the post office and asked him about it - he said we should test his thyroid and he was right! He put Ray on thyroid replacement and his fur was soft and normal again pretty quickly from what I remember.
 

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Penny had many of the same coat issues some time ago. We tried everything from omega oils to thyroid testing to neem oil to ivermectin- she already ate raw. Nothing worked until I had her allergy tested and she started her immunization shots. Her skin and coat are much improved now.
 

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Originally Posted By: Murphy-ElperroguapoYay for happy poops (we're still working on those here).

The only caveat I would give for adding more fat to the diet is that many SIBO dogs can't handle excessive fat without issue.

Also, most of us that supplement give Omega 3s, not Omega 6s since most foods (whether raw or kibble) contain more Omega 6s than 3s. I personally prefer to give Omegas from meat sources rather than vegetable ones since dogs are carnivores. JMHO. Gotta do what works for you and your dog, afterall.
Gotta love good poop!

Patti, as an aside, it's been my experience that fish oils often come with vitamin E included. So I'm very careful to read the label (How do you say "Too much Vitamin E" in German?
).

Gotta agree with Jamie's statement re extra fats and SIBO. (And adding Omega 3s over 6's.) But if you're adding extra oils, I like olive oil to supplement for a soft shiny coat. It's not grain-based like some other oils. Ruth has me rethinking using canola as much as I had been in just day-to-day use. (http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/conola.html)

The Stig started another thread about Essential Fatty Acids (O3s and O6's), that's in the raw thread right now. I'm sure you've seen it, but it has more info on sources of these oils, in case you haven't been loitering over there.


Of course, thyroid issues are to be considered. Zamboni's fur became much softer after she went on thyroid rx. Did your vet do blood work in any of those thousands of visits thus far?
 

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Originally Posted By: Murphy-Elperroguapo

Also, most of us that supplement give Omega 3s, not Omega 6s since most foods (whether raw or kibble) contain more Omega 6s than 3s. I personally prefer to give Omegas from meat sources rather than vegetable ones since dogs are carnivores. JMHO. Gotta do what works for you and your dog, afterall.
It would be proper for a food to contain more Omega 6s than Omega 3s as that would be along the proper ratio. Veggie sources tend to be higher in omega 6s than meat sources which is why I would recommend them. The current diet this dog is on contains IMO more than enough omega 3s and that is why I think perhaps it needs a boost of omega 6 (specifically linoleic acid) as this is the number one fatty acid for coat and skin.

Cherri
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Nekkid GSD, CrunchyCrispyCoat pic

Okay all, what do you think? Diagnosis? Look thyroid, or perhaps dietery to you? Here is a pic of Grimm showing the condition his coat is in now. Eerily tight, as if zero undercoat, dry, brittle-feeling. What does this look like to you?

If this doesn't seem strange to you, consider that his Mom has a normal GSD coat and his Dad is a plush coat, and that Grimm is from Czech lines.. usually quite well-furred. He DID have a nice enough winter coat, but when he blew coat, this is what remained. Since winter, however, he is off of any raw (he had raw for midday meals this winter), is off of Prozyme, (could he be dependant on those enzymes and need 'em?) and the coat texture is dry, brittle, crispy, crunchy.. except for lovely soft head fur.

Basicly, he does have a neck ruff still a lil bit, and he has some breechings on the backs of his buns... but in between is a barren wasteland! He seems and feels like a shaved-down Schnauzer.


Will ask my vet about thyroid. Any other ideas?
 

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Nekkid GSD, CrunchyCrispyCoat pic

C'mon, gang.. risque, nudie GSD pic here!
 

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Re: Nekkid GSD, CrunchyCrispyCoat pic

It looks a little thin!

Did you see the thread with Nina's pictures in it in this section-labeled thyroid or not? She looks like a giant baby Schipperke. Which is cute...but...

I am going to update there in a minute so it will be closer to the top.
 

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Re: Nekkid GSD, CrunchyCrispyCoat pic

Originally Posted By: BrightelfC'mon, gang.. risque, nudie GSD pic here!
Well, I'm just speechless. (which is, in and of itself rather miraculous). This IS a family forum, after all...
 
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