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Discussion Starter #1
So how do you all handle other peoples "crazy" dogs at training that their owner can't control? There is a large dog that is trying to go after other dogs and he pulls the lady around like she is a piece of paper...One man had to pick up his little dog by the collar, hanging his dog, to keep this dog from getting him...

I offered her my prong, because she uses a choke, just to try and help her get control...the trainer came towards me to get it...and she suddenly says "No"....so he turned around.

If we go back and this dog is still acting like this...I will be upset...How would you all handle this? I know she is trying to get him trained ( and I do appreciate that) but,this was our 3rd class, and he isnt improving...

and my dog is paranoid (dont blame her) and can't concentrate when he is anywhere near her...
 

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Uh, talk to the trainer.... Tell him that you are concerned and if she doesn't put a properly fitted prong on the dog or get it under control some other way you do not feel comfortable coming back! It's his job as well to keep everyone safe in his class.
 

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Maybe this lady needs to have a 'sidebar' with the trainer so he can express his concern for her handling techniques(or lack thereof) and suggest different equipment. If the lady is indeed using a choke, even a suitable harness would be better suited for her situatiuon if she is adament about not using a prong.
Oiy.
 

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When there is a dog like that in class, my trainer usually asks them to do private classes, because she doesn't think it is fair to everyone else, since those duos usually end up taking up most of the trainer's time, as well as cause major distraction among the other dogs. Also, she does feel that everyone's safety is her responsibility. She never just kicks someone out, but always offers to train with them in a different situation.
 

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We had a 'crazy' dog in our first OB class. The instructor gave him two weeks, and then by the third week the man and his dog were gone. She told him he would need one on one training.
 

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I think the trainer needs to step in. This pair is not ready for this level of training yet and maybe they should just work on exercises on the sideline, but that is between her and the trainer.

I've opted out of some exercises that I know my dog was not ready to handle and worked on focus.

It's not fair to everyone else, and it is not fair for this dog and his handler either.

Talk to the trainer in context of your dog. Ask them for suggestions on what you can do to make it pleasant for your dog.
 

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I agree. our trainer put Lizzie in private class because of her reactions and because she was intimidating to other dogs. We did not object and would not have had a good experience in a class with others.
 

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A lot of places offer classes specifically for dogs who flare up. I know because my dog is enrolled! Perhaps the instructor should suggest this type of training for her until she can get control of him. It may not be a safe environment for her dog or other dogs.
 

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you should definitely talk to the trainer. Obviously this pair is troublesome and the dog needs to learn control and the handler needs to learn how to control and handle the dog. I would say if the trainer isnt willing to make the area safe for all, it may be best to find one who will. Part of training is learning to obey and be around other dogs/distractions. i get the impression this woman isnt keeping up with training at home as well as attending the classes and those are the kinds of people who shouldnt have dogs and if they do, they certainly shouldnt have them in a group class. Maybe you could politely ask why she's against prong collars? you could even suggest one of those ease harnesses that prevent pulling.
 

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Ok my opinion does not fall into this line.

Grow some patience. Work on keeping yourself and your dog calm and safe within the class. The chances of this dog EATING your dog here in class are pretty slim. If the dog is acting up, and you are near it, calmly walk your dog to the other side of the room.

Everyone's dog and every handler is at a different place. Working around other dogs might be what this dog needs to work on. Private lessons would not help at all.

If our trainer put all the reactive dogs in a class together, they would carry her out on a stretcher after the first class. Furthermore, reactive dogs really need to work around stable dogs.

And you and your dog need to stay calm and act appropriately in this setting around a dog that is not doing so hot. No where else will you be able to practice this safer. And the chances are, you will have plenty of opportunities outside of class where this experience will be invaluable.

It is great that in your opinion, you and your dog are ready for class #3.

Sometimes we are the stable, well behaved teams; sometimes we are the ones needing a little more patience.

I'll be damned if my trainer EVER requires me to put a prong collar on my dog. For one thing, they are not all that safe, they open and then what do you have, an unmanageable dog running around without a handle. Nothing wrong with the suggestion, but requiring that in my opinion is not appropriate. Requireing a collar the dog cannot slip, like a martingale or choke is ok for safety if the dog has slipped its collar.
 

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Some trainers will put a reactive or over rambunctious dog behind a barrier for a few weeks until they start to settle in class. The dog can hear what's going on but can't see the other dogs.

This gives the dog owner a chance to practice getting their dog to focus on them, while keeping a safe distance from the other dogs. Seems like a better alternative than slapping a prong collar on the dog. If the dog really is reactive it more than likely needs time to adjust not a heavier hand.
 

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As an instructor of beginner obedience and CGC classes, I agree fully with Selzer. First, prong collars are not the miracle cure to boisterous dogs that people seem to think they are. They should be used selectively, and only after a well-experienced trainer recommends it and instructs the handler how to utilize the tool properly. Timing, focus, attention, and all of the other training elements are still required. If the dog is truly aggressive, a muzzle may be in order during class for safety(most dogs need a week or two of practice at home wearing a muzzle before they are able to focus on a class while wearing one). Otherwise, focus on your own dog and his responses to the environment. In the "real world" there will be barking, lunging, aggressive, boisterous, and free running dogs that your dog will come up against: this is a perfect setting for you to teach your dog about remaining calm and attentive during these distractions. Cut the handler of the boisterous dog some slack: not all humans have the same temperament, maturity level, and ability to learn at the same pace as everyone else. Dogs are no different. If this handler is serious about being a responsible dog owner, they deserve and need our support as they struggle with whatever issues they come up against.
 

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I liked Selzers post-I just look at it as a distraction for my dog-keep her focused on me and its something to work through If someones dog breaks a stay and runs to my dog-it gives me a chance to test my dog-its a good training opportunity
 

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Honestly, if the dog is that disruptive it should be asked to do private lessons.. That way the handler can work one on one with the trainer/instructor, learn how to get control of the dog first and then they can work on bringing in a few other dogs, where it would be safe and the environment more controlled. Then once they've worked on that they can think about re-joining the group classes.

Or if the facility is big enough maybe the instructor can have them move off to the side, away from the other dog handler teams and work on the exercises.. That way it takes them out of the mix, where the dog my be less stimulated.. And then gradually add them back in..

It's really not fair to the others if the dog is acting up to where it's putting the others on edge..
 

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I would talk to the trainer and voice my concerns, luckily Frank and I go to a trainer that is very good at helping owners keep their dogs in line, and stepping in if one dog does act up, when that happens I use it as a training experience for Frank. You never know when you could come across that type situation on a walk with your dog and no trainer to step in.
 

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Honestly, if the dog is that disruptive it should be asked to do private lessons.. That way the handler can work one on one with the trainer/instructor, learn how to get control of the dog first and then they can work on bringing in a few other dogs, where it would be safe and the environment more controlled. Then once they've worked on that they can think about re-joining the group classes.

Or if the facility is big enough maybe the instructor can have them move off to the side, away from the other dog handler teams and work on the exercises.. That way it takes them out of the mix, where the dog my be less stimulated.. And then gradually add them back in..

It's really not fair to the others if the dog is acting up to where it's putting the others on edge..
The problem with this, is where do you draw the line. I walk into a class on the first day and half of the class is on edge because I have a six month old shepherd who barked one time in the parking lot. Should I be asked to leave???

Sorry, but the crazies are out there, not generally trying to do something about their dogs in a training class. They are the ones you really have to worry about.

There have been exceptions, dog that go for other dogs when you have a puppy, I have stepped between and relocated my puppy because I am there for positive socialization, and if this adult dog takes a chunk out of mine, that will not be good at all.

The other exception to this, was being in an advanced class. The instructor allowed a woman with a big dog, Bermese Mountain Dog I think to join at that level because she listed the classes she had taken with him. She got him to class and he would not sit, would not down, could not finish or come front. He was obviously in a class way beyond where he should have been.

On the flip side, since I am currently working two puppies both in their first set of classes, I have the less confident in basic, and the more confident in basic II. We are still mastering walking on a lead, and coming when called, and stays, but the rest of the class is not that far ahead of us.
 

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In my obdnce 1 class, when this happens the trainer steps in and takes over until the dog is calm. If it happens again the trainer steps in again.

He uses these situation as opportunities to teach owners how to correct their dogs.

When it happens a third time everbody just gives the handler/owner that akward look, and they learn quickly.

I know because its happened to me.

To me it sounds like the trainer needs to regain control of his/her class.
 

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The problem with this, is where do you draw the line. I walk into a class on the first day and half of the class is on edge because I have a six month old shepherd who barked one time in the parking lot. Should I be asked to leave???
I guess that would be up to the individual facility?
 

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I also think it depends on what YOU are comfortable with, if your uncomfortable with it, talk to the trainer. If the trainer does nothing about it, then I would go elsewhere.

Again, I'll go on my experience with a purely positive puppy class I put Masi in..I know there are alot of first time/inexperienced dog owners out there, and I met a few in this class. They couldn't control their older puppies/dogs, they let their dogs do whatever they felt like doing while the trainer tried to get a grip on things. (this was not an inexperienced trainer)

The trainer was in over her head with alot of young reactive dogs to begin with, and each week got worse. It's easy to say 'move away' , did it on more than one occassion, minded our own business and still some idiot would allow their dog to come "jump" my 'minding her own business puppy'...Talked to the trainer, she admitted she didn't realize she was going to have that many first time owners/reactive dogs..(there were 10 in class)

I pulled Masi out of class at #4, and kick myself for not doing it sooner, took me quite some time to deprogram 'crap' that happened in that short of time.

Ok, done with my rant, just want to end up saying again, If your comfortable with the class, can get 'space' away from boisterous, ill mannered dogs, do so. If your uncomfortable with it, speak to the trainer.

I certainly realize we all go to obedience classes FOR these distractions and training, but sometimes enough is enough if the trainer has no control over what goes on.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for all of your posts, my biggest fear is because this dog just pulls this lady all around the training area trying to get to the dogs...it just isn't safe....It is not a good opportunity to train my dog, because we are literally having to rush our dogs away from her because he just pulls her to get to our dogs...and I am NOT going to stand there and let me dog get attacked......That is the only reason I recommended the prong to her..As soon as he starts pulling, she can't stop him, or even attempt to train him....She is leaning back and he just pulls her to the next dog..and the trainer has to stop class and take her dog away from her to stop him

I just hope she gets private lessons and stops coming or at least stays on the other side of the fence so the rest of us don't have to keep worrying...
 
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