@tc68 I was talking about inside the house no collar but if you need one on you have to do what works for you. He would be dead also with wearing a collar if he does not listen to you outside. Lol I do get it though - my second thread I ever posted on this forum was about Max darting out the front door - if the kids left it open or did not shut it right- running after wild life- he would chase a herd of deer, feral cats - we live across from and in the woods. A lot of impulse control work waiting to retrieve balls, waiting patiently for his meal until okay is given , waiting to exit the front door etc. free Susan Garret’s recaller videos, on a long lines training without then with distractions in the feral cat community across the street and eventually proofed with e collar helped with proofing recalls around wild life outdoors. Also leave it- when I see Max pick up scent of a pack of wild deer. He is quite intense. Time and patience it took and many mistakes along the way.