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Do you have a crate? I am concerned for Seamus and Thor and Freya's safety while you're gone. Can you crate Seamus or Thor?

And we all understand it's hard. He probably was raised in the wild by a pack of nasty, mean people. And it takes a long time and a lot of patience on your part to help him let go of that. The big breakthrough with Basu was the day he put his nose in my hand. I put my hand out for him to lick (he never got that concept) and he plunked his nose into my hand and closed his eyes and went to sleep.
But his nose was covered in snot and he was drooling and had a sore under his nose because he was so scared and worried. And he also would not take treats at first and then later not under duress (which included almost anything) either.

Try chicken liver, raw meat or cheese. Something really smelly and disgusting.
 

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Quote:What dog ignores treats?
Mine does, for one! I just donated a huge box of various never-opened and almost-full boxes of all kinds of treats to the local Humane Society - Kaiser wouldn't touch them - and he's not even a dog with "issues" - well, maybe a few, but nothing compared to Seamus! Maybe Seamus is ball- or toy- motivated? Or maybe he doesn't even know what those things are....

I wish I had some advice for you, but I really don't. To me, the crate sounds like a great idea for all involved - you, Seaumus and your other two dogs. Maybe Seamus would even enjoy having his own "den" until he gets used to things at your house. Kaiser isn't crate-trained, but we've had the crate set up ever since we brough him home and he does like to go in his crate once in awhile just to be by himself. I put a dark sheet over the top and sides to make it more den-like for him and he will go in there to sleep every now and then.

Unfortunately 4 days at your house is not enough time to undo a lifetime of problems for this boy.

I wish you all the luck in the world that things work out.
 

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My dog will ignore food when very stressed and she loves food. Stress can cause alot of what you are seeing but then again maybe no one ever taught him anything. You are 'only' in day 4 which probably seems like a lifetime. You are not ranting we are here to support you so say what you need to and maybe someday you can turn these posts into a book:) Do you have a crate? I would crate him when you are gone and put padlocks or as I did peton (spelling) clips from the camping or hardware store on the crate .... not just the door. I would put him away from the other dogs so they can't see each other

Oh yes one other thing is the Nothing in Life is Free method. I feed all new dogs all their food out of my hands for doing something I ask of them for the first few weeks. He will learn you are the boss this way. If he doesn't want the treat offered he will get hungry enough eventually to take the food out of your hands. He may not want to take the treat out of your hand right now due to his fear issues.
 

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Originally Posted By: LUV_GSDs
Oh yes one other thing is the Nothing in Life is Free method. I feed all new dogs all their food out of my hands for doing something I ask of them for the first few weeks. He will learn you are the boss this way. If he doesn't want the treat offered he will get hungry enough eventually to take the food out of your hands. He may not want to take the treat out of your hand right now due to his fear issues.
I use the NILIF method so that my dogs understand I am the leader and that there are fair and consistent rules in the house. Maybe that's what you meant buy "boss," but to me there's a big difference. When you have a dog who has an unknown past which certainly involved abuse I think you have to approach things very differently in terms of your expectations of the dog and of your relationship with the dog. It is a daily and sometimes hourly coming to terms but the sooner you understand that the sooner you will more fully come to an understanding with the dog. Seamus is his own dog. I'm sorry that things are so frustrating and stressful. With a few exceptions, your experience is much like what I've experienced with some of my fosters and personal adoptees.

Chin up and remember that Seamus is his own dog!
 

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I've been reading all the posts here and I see that folks are giving you some good advice...I can't imagine how hard it would be to do what you're doing. I just hope you have the strength the keep it up...Poor Seamus...can you imagine what he's been through to feel like he does.

I am hoping that you return from work and all is well...I will be checking in later to see if there is an update.

About the walking problem...my friend recommends the use of a halti...it is a way to stop the dog from pulling...check it out on the Internet. Might be a good idea for Seamus and you...so strength involved...it's a very gentle way to stop problems on the leash. In fact my 72 yr. old sister used it with their border collie as a pup and she was amazed...GOOD LUCK, Judy
 

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Yes by boss I meant leader. Seamus must have gone through alot in his life. I am betting that calmness and kindness will win him over but it might take alot of time. I had a foster who was abused and I suspect horribly but he loved humans. I wondered if he didn't have to fight for every scrap of food as his biggest problem involved food and he ate what ever he could find including frogs, turtles, mice, moles...pretty disgusting.
 

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well i am so sorry to hear the frustration, disappointment, and depression you're feeling, though i certainly understand. our intentions are so honorable, but the reality of a dog who comes to us so damaged can just be overwhelming.

from the little experience i've had, it's appeared to me as though rescues can suffer from what i call "sensory overload", being shuttled one place to another, never knowing what's next or what to expect. so, first the disclaimer again...i'm no expert...but first of all i think the crate (hard-side, bomb-proof :)), is an absolute necessity, and maybe if you just give him his own space, maybe even in a room by himself, not expose him at all to your other dogs, offer food and toilet on a regular basis (but don't expect anything, give him a reasonable time to eat or go, then back to his "den"), don't take him for walks, or out with the other dogs, just give him a safe space to decompress and absorb the fact that no one is going to hurt him and nothing unexpected is going to happen. that, in turn, might decrease your frustration level, which he can certainly feel.

computer's acting weird, don't want to loose the whole post, ending it now, take care, we're here for you, there are solutions to every problem. many blessings to you and your kat liz.
 

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I think it would be helpful for you emotionally to take a step back and lower your expectations. He has made terrific progress already but he won't turn into the perfect pet overnight. 5 days is nothing. It is not that unusual to get a rescue dog in this condition, and it takes time for them to recover. I usually give some quiet time to the new fosters so that they can adjust to a new home. Eating, sleeping and potty breaks with some walking will help. The dogs like to have a routine and it gives them safety.
I would make sure that he is safely separated from the other dogs while you are gone. It is best that he is crated. I reinforce every crate with cable ties (the sides that open and separate). I use clips on the door and in the tray section. I had dogs that broke out though the tray.
I use small pieces of smelly hot dog as treats, it works much better than doggie cookies.
Look forward to the small improvements and give yourself and the dog credit for that.
The changes are often in sudden steps, something clicks and the dog's behavior changes.
I would wait with exposing him to other dogs until he is less stressed out. You should take some time to bond with him first.
Try to offer him different toys and figure out what he likes. Again, it may take some time for him to figure it out as he has probably never seen toys.
 

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You might try a Gentle Leader. It is similiar to the Halti, but is more difficult for them to get it off, therefore a bit safer to walk them in.
Hope things are better with your gang. As for Seamus not paying attention to you, he may not have decided that he is your dog yet, and you are basically nobody to him right now. Remember our GSD's can be aloof, something we see in rescue dogs. Once he decides he's home, it should be a different relationship.
 

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I can totally relate. I felt the same way when we brought Rocky home. Everything was perfect, and then along came Rocky which slowly transformed his sister into a raving maniac. After 6 weeks, the fights started. Each fight I would break up took more energy than before and I had to spend 3 days in bed to recover. Breaking up 2 GSDs who sincerely want to kill eachother is a feat!

So I was very depressed. I felt bad for both of them to be crated a lot, switching in and out. So we bought them great outdoor kennels and I felt better. Then slowly it all became second nature, the management and the slow introduction of CC&D. Now I am only occasionally sad that we can't have them all together at once. But we will get there. So take heart. This is the toughest part. You haven't found a high value enough treat for him. Try canned chicken. Cheese (that kind that comes in a whipped cream type of can). Liver. There is a food he will react to, you haven't found it. Even try carrots!

Maybe try to think of all of this as a blessing in disguise. Your love of dogs drove you to save a dog, sight unseen. Now your love of dogs is forcing you explore the domestic wolf mentality to it's very core. This will blow your mind. You're grieving the past, the perfect state of your wolf pack that is now in turmoil. That's expected. Building a new pack will blast your Universe wide open. Seek the help of experts, like a positive trainer, different schools of training. They all have value to some degree. Positive is more proven in terms of rehab and changes your whole life.

If you would like, I can send him some serious Reiki. But I would need a fairly decent photo. Don't poo poo it, Reiki is some awesome stuff. Let the Universe help you. Your boy is listening to his new world which is why he seems so distant. Eye contact is confrontational to wolves so he's just being polite! He is listening to every sound which you cannot hear. When he is more used to it, he will let his guard down. Hang in there! Give it some time. Don't bail. You might need a Leerburg crate so he doesn't hurt himself (again - think wolf containment). Count your blessings and lead your pack so they are all less nervous and have confidence in you.

We're all here for you!
 

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I am pretty dogcentric when it comes to these situations. We rescue for them. If I want a dog for me, I'll buy it with all the health and temperament testing.

I understand that it's frustrating, but looking at it from the dog's point of view, with no cognitive abilities to process...it's terrifying. To live in fear is toxic-it is very difficult to reverse the chemical cocktail that is released.

The dog is in survival mode. He has had to rely on himself and only himself as his leader for who knows how long. If he trusts someone, he could die. Black/white. He's not thinking how lucky he is or what an ingrate he's being. He's just trying to stay one step ahead of you and two bonded dogs.

I leave dogs alone. I let them watch me and my dogs and instead of making them respond to me, I respond to them. No calendar of where they should be when, no expectations. Patience, love, time.
 

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thinking about you and sending positive thoughts and energy your way again today! take care, many blessings...
 

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Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
I leave dogs alone. I let them watch me and my dogs and instead of making them respond to me, I respond to them. No calendar of where they should be when, no expectations. Patience, love, time.
I like your thinking here Jean, maybe this can help me with my own issues...
 

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Day 5 Journal

When does going to work feel like a vacation? When you have a dog named Seamus.


I placed a door size piece of plywood in front of the glass paneled door and the gate. Instant silence. What they couldn't see didn't bother any of the three. When I came home from work, all was peaceful. Useful that I'm restoring my house post-hurricane...all that kind of stuff is just laying around.

I have a crate but he absolutely hated being locked up in it. I've decided that the hallway (4' by 20') works just fine. I don't want him to feel crowded as he did in the shelter. He eats, drinks and sleeps in there...and stands on his hind legs to watch the cat outside the window. But I worry about isolation...he's been alone so long that isolating him like this seems almost cruel tho' I see the value of it at this time. I 'visit' with him every half hour, even if just to sit on the floor as a presence. Sometimes he comes and stands next to me for a second or two while I scratch his ears but basically he just runs (bounces) from one end to the other.

I discovered that a retractable leash worked wonders. The short leash kept him close to me and he strained and pulled constantly to put distance between us. By releasing him to at least 16 feet away from me, he trots along quite nicely. When he pulls at the other end, I've been stopping and standing still until he runs back to see what's holding me up. Then off we go again, with Seamus occasionally glancing over his shoulder to see if I'm still there. He peed and pooed very well this way last night and this morning. So I won't worry about any other collars right now like the Halti or the GL. He doesn't function well with anything around his neck and as long as the halter and the retractable leash are working so well, why mess with it right now. Perhaps in the future.

There seems to be (so far) no one toy or distraction that interests him (other than Callie the Cat, of course). He's hyperactive but it seems to be limited to running up and down his hallway and jumping up to look out the window. I've been trying NILIF but you have to have his attention for it to have any results and that's the last thing I have from him. I haven't tried alternative snacks yet but I'll try some cheese and hot dogs tonight and this weekend. I have to work again today so won't have much time to spend worrying about it.

At the moment, he's on the same regimen as Thor and Freya, although he has been going out more often until he began to pee and poo on the same schedule as they have. He eats at the same time, he walks the same time and bedtime means lights out and the house quiets down. I have found (especially having had an ADHD daughter) that setting parameters and keeping things as close to the same time of day for everything works very well for dogs too.

But working yesterday truly was like a vacation. I needed to just get away from the constant stress for several hours. I feel much better today. *smiles* And it is such a help to come home and read all your posts. It is a great help to have all your moral support. I've rarely in my life asked for help for anything so this is a first for me too. And to have it given so freely is a blessing.

I suffer from Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (a collagen related disorder) that keeps my joints and body in constant pain. I've recovered from a heart seizure, a brain hemorrage (that had me in a coma for a month and took all my speech/vocabulary from me and included cutting away part of my skull to ease the pressure) and an artery that burst in my stomach (doctors called it an Act of God as there was no explanation for it). I'm 67 years old, 5'4" tall, weigh 117 lbs.....and still hanging tough. If I can make it, so can Seamus. Just have to apply the same tough hanging-in- there attitude to the poor old boy.

Does anyone know any of the moderators here? Could they set up a forum for GSD owner journals like this one (so we don't clutter up the regular forums)?
 

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wow, you are a brave, brave, woman! glad to see things are going a bit better with seamus. have a busy day/evening today, just popped in to read day 5's journal entry. if mods don't want to create a new category, is the place for these entries possibly "where are they now"? as always, take care and many blessings...
 

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It sounds to me if things are really going quite well...I know it's really hard for you but I think that you are doing things just right for Seamus.

I hope that when you get home tonight things will be just as good as they were yesterday...and like you said, you got away from the house and had some time to yourself.

I agree with your thinking that if the halter and retractable leash work, don't change it.

I think that Seamus is doing really well adjusting.

Our Cody never was an affectionate boy...he was satisfied laying in another room and if he wanted pets he would come to get them...and that wasn't often...he was more like Seamus, a loner. Our GSD, Kayla on the other hand was glued to our sides...

I will be anxious for tomorrows update. I can understand if you're tired tonight. You too have been through quite alot...BLESS YOU for working with this dog...Judy
 

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looking back at you when he gets to the end of the lead is progress:) You two sound like you were meant to find each other...you can appreciate how tough life can be and that when strong one can recover from it and move on. And yes some GSDs are aloof...my old girl was a great dog but always went to her bed when she wanted to lie down and never pestered me for attention. Have a good night's sleep and know that we are all sending good vibes your way. You are a wonderful person.
 

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wondering how it's going, waiting for day 6 journal entry...and, of course, wishing you the best!
 

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Me too...I think we are all waiting to hear what today held for our boy:)
 
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