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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone had any experince with this? It looks less painful than the prong collar but it is very expensive and I don`t want to waste my money. Thanks
 

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Have you put on a properly sized prong and used it on yourself (on your thigh, the closest approximation)? They really don't hurt unless you yank the crap out of your dog which is something that should not be done except if you have a dog with high pain tolerance in a situation which warrants an extreme correction. Looks are deceiving, and though this collar looks like a wonderful idea for torture, it's really not. Get a good brand like Herm Sprenger, not a pet store brand, as those have rounded ends as opposed to potentially sharp ends.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have Herm Spenger for her but by the time I get it to stay high on her neck there are only 6 prongs on it. I guess I just want something more comfortable for her.
 

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What size of prong collar do you have, Lilly's Mom?

The reason I'm asking is that many people with big dogs will automatically go for the larger-size prong collars, such as the Medium and Large sizes. But when you have a dog with a more slender neck, you end up with a lot of chain and not a whole lot of prongs, as you've found out. One thing you could do would be to purchase a small prong collar and buy additional links if they are needed.

I have to admit that I don't like the Illusion Collar because it's basically a contraption designed to help you keep a choke collar on the upper part of the dog's neck. Are you comfortable using a choke? If so, you can probably learn ways of keeping it up on your dog's neck without the Illusion Collar.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I bought the medium prong. It only has 6 prongs on it now as her neck it 17inches under the ears.I have a choke chain but I dislike it and she pulls hard into it. She has recently undergone heartworm treatment and I know that when she goes out for her first walk after a month of confinement she will be a wrangatang. The prong will probably control her better than anything.
 

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If the choke does not work for you, the Illusion Collar very likely will not, either. Like I said, it's just to keep a choke (a nylon one) high up on the neck. Same concept as the choke you already have, just makes it easier to keep it up high.

I would order a small size prong (and if needed, extra links) instead, personally.
 

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I have one, but I didn't much care for it. I followed the instructions but I'm still not sure I had it on him right. It sure made him look like he had a case of giraffe-neck syndrome which bothered me tremendously. I do not think I gave it a fair trial, however. So you can count me "sitting on the fence" for my opinion. I know that's not much help. I couldn't help thinking why I don't like turtle neck sweaters so I don't wear them. Similar principal.
 

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Lilly's Mom, did you buy the 'big girl prong' collar with the large prongs, that SEEMS like the appropriate size?

Of the size smaller that's actually IDEAL for our dog (even the biggest GSD's). The point you made about more individual links is important. So the smaller the link, the more of them. Also, they can be fitted more accurately, doesn't make such a huge difference when you just add/remove a single link. And the smaller collar is much easier for me to separate the links to get the collar on and off.

Here's photos to compare the links. I use the smaller ones now (collar on top):



Here are both collars on Bretta:

 

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Yeah, the I-collar is just a choke with an extra piece to keep the choke up high.

I use a prong with small links. I put it on my leg the other day, yanked and yanked (I would NEVER yank on a dog the way I was yanking) and it didn't hurt at all.

I do use slip/choke collars, but not for training or corrections. I use them just to move dogs in/out of the car or walking dogs that already are trained. Sometimes I use a prong, just depends on what I'm trying to accomplish. To me, fit is more important than placement. I don't think the prong needs to be under the dog's ears to work, but I do think it needs to be fit properly!

This is how I use a prong - snugly fitting, no slack in the chain (the collar can't hang or turn around on the neck), just above the ID collar but not necessarily way up high.
 

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so what do you use to train? I have read so many things and am now confused. I started my dog with a standard collar,then I read the Monks from New Skeet said they use a choke collar and so did a few other breeders. But I have also read that it can be dangerous if you are leaving your dog alone(in the yard or home) with this type of collar on. what would you recommend for training and everyday use?
 

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My "tag" collar is a Mountain choke with a screw-link coupler holding the two rings together so it cannot actually choke, with the tags dangling form the coupler as well. (It's basically a link / connector that screws closed, to keep tags safely on the collar.) I use that because it's quite narrow and doesn't mat down the fur - with Abby's coat, you can't even see it.

My "everyday use" collar, for attaching the leash to, is a flat nylon or flat leather collar. When I need additional control, I use either a choke (a thicker gauge Mountain choke) or a prong collar.

ALL collars are dangerous when left on a dog that is unsupervised, especially on a dog inside a crate. Dogs attempting to escape from crates have been known to get hung up and choked to death on flat nylon collars, too. Leaving a dog with a choke collar on is even more dangerous, because if one of the rings gets caught on something and the dog panics, the dog will choke itself to death.

If you have to leave a collar on an unsupervised dog, I would use a safety collar (flat nylon collar with an elastic section so it will stretch for the dog to pull his head out in an emergency) or a flat collar that is loose enough to where the dog could reasonably get his head out. (Or, like me, a loose, small gauge mountain choke rigged up in a way that makes it impossible for it to choke.)
 

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Originally Posted By: LiesjeTo me, fit is more important than placement. I don't think the prong needs to be under the dog's ears to work, but I do think it needs to be fit properly!

This is how I use a prong - snugly fitting, no slack in the chain (the collar can't hang or turn around on the neck), just above the ID collar but not necessarily way up high.

I have seen it both high by the ears and low right above the collar. In the past I have used it up high (that's what I was taught), does anyone have a particular preference? Does it really matter where the prong is placed?
 

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Quote:does anyone have a particular preference? Does it really matter where the prong is placed?
I think it comes down to personal preference and how much control you need to have. The higher up the prong sits, the more sensitive an area it is around. If someone needed the best possible amount of control and correction, higher up would be a better choice than around the center of the neck or the bottom of the neck, which are less sensitive than the area right behind the ears.
 

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Originally Posted By: The_Big_Apple
Originally Posted By: LiesjeTo me, fit is more important than placement. I don't think the prong needs to be under the dog's ears to work, but I do think it needs to be fit properly!

This is how I use a prong - snugly fitting, no slack in the chain (the collar can't hang or turn around on the neck), just above the ID collar but not necessarily way up high.

I have seen it both high by the ears and low right above the collar. In the past I have used it up high (that's what I was taught), does anyone have a particular preference? Does it really matter where the prong is placed?
I place mine in the middle. I don't think it *needs* to be way at the top, at least not for my dogs. I'm much more concerned that it FITS. Most prongs that look lower on the neck are because the collar is way to big and/or loose. Sometimes my dogs have more than one collar, and I prefer the prong collar be above their "ID" collar (collar that is always worn, holds ID tags, usually fits looser than the prong). Maybe if you have a really hard, drivey dog it needs to be up higher for the corrections to register.
 

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Originally Posted By: Liesje Maybe if you have a really hard, drivey dog it needs to be up higher for the corrections to register.
That is exactly right. With the Czech dog I had, if it wasn't right below his ears, it had no more effect than a flat collar.
 

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Male dogs have very powerful necks, lots of muscles and skin so I guess if the prong is not positioned high on the neck it doesn't provide an adequate correction. Anton's neck is already wider than Yana's (he's 8 months and she's 20 months).
 

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Originally Posted By: Historian
ALL collars are dangerous when left on a dog that is unsupervised, especially on a dog inside a crate. Dogs attempting to escape from crates have been known to get hung up and choked to death on flat nylon collars, too. Leaving a dog with a choke collar on is even more dangerous, because if one of the rings gets caught on something and the dog panics, the dog will choke itself to death.

If you have to leave a collar on an unsupervised dog, I would use a safety collar (flat nylon collar with an elastic section so it will stretch for the dog to pull his head out in an emergency) or a flat collar that is loose enough to where the dog could reasonably get his head out. (Or, like me, a loose, small gauge mountain choke rigged up in a way that makes it impossible for it to choke.)
I use a breakaway collar for unsupervised dogs (it comes apart if it gets caught). The collar can also be used as a regular collar because it has 2 D-rings one on each side of the breakaway piece so if you want to use it with a leash you just hook the leash to both D-rings. I also have several Ruffwear Knot-A-Collars which loosen if caught.

When I used a prong in training (with a terrier) my trainer said the only dogs who need the larger prongs are giant breeds and those with VERY thick neck fur where the smaller links would not get through the fur. They said most dogs should use the smallest size prong and just buy extra links to fit the dog's neck.
 

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I just started using a prong collar last Saturday to be exact! The training facility I take my 4 month old Clutch to taught us how to properly use them and I am in love! She definitely said that it's better to use a small one and add more links than the large. And since they distribute pressure all around the neck instead of just in the front like a typical flat nylon collar on a pulling dog, they can be much safer in many cases. They do not hurt at all! I even put mine around my neck (Don't laugh, my hubby already made fun of me!) and it actually felt kinda good, like one of those massage prongy things. I heard somewhere that it works like accupressure around the neck. I heard that about the gentle leader too but not sure about that. I was also going to tell you that I LOVE the Monks of New Skete and read their books exclusively with my first dog. This lead me to do numerous "alpha roll-overs" because I was reading the 1976 version!!! Eep! They still have good stuff, just make sure you're reading the most up to date!
 

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I was just about to go out and buy a prong collar for my dog. I pit stopped at the store and just had a look at them. There were the small links and the wide one. I thought of getting Major a the bigger links (choker) but from I read here you guys prefer the small one. My dog is one year old and now out of nowhere he decided to go for other dogs and ready to eat them if I would let go of the leash. The regular chokers does absolutely nothing to this dog. Nothing hurts him either. Hes like a wall. He weighs 100lbs right now and not finish growing
so i was going out to get him a prong to try that out. Here is a photo of Major and notice his neck. What do you think?

thank you

 
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