[GandalfTheShepherd]

Hi all,
Today was the big day, we finally got Gandalf in to the vet for his X rays to rule out mega E. He did fine, not very happy with our vet though . They made me leave him and the procedure took several hours, when they called and told us to pick him up the vet had already left and went home. When I briefly spoke with her on the phone she said I'm not a radiologist so I don't really know how to read these but it looks normal... you can send it to a board certified radiologist for another $90. I got a copy of the x rays though. She told me it was fine to exercise him again but to keep feeding him small meals so he doesn't regurgitate. As soon as we got home he regurgitated all over the floor.... I'm going to post the x rays here in case if anyone on the forum might know how to read them... perhaps a second set of eyes looking at them might give us some answers. For now it remains one big expensive mystery. These first few images are before the barium. Total cost $650 and they did end up sedating him. Poor guy is still super sleepy..

 

[GandalfTheShepherd]

After the barium

 

[GandalfTheShepherd]

Heres the sedative they gave him... read it was supposed to be relatively safe but he is still completely out of it :frown2:.

 

[Jax08]

he may have regurgitated because of the sedation. give him tagamet or zantac.

 

[GypsyGhost]

All along, it has sounded like either reflux or a food intolerance to me. I’m glad it doesn’t look like Mega-E.

 

[gsdsar]

This does not look like megaE so that's a good thing.

The Torb shoukd wear off in a few hours.

Hopefully they can figure it out.

 

[GandalfTheShepherd]

The medicine still seems to be in his system , he acted very strange this morning... skittish, he seemed almost afraid of me, every time I went to pet him he would run off and wouldn't lay down in one spot for very long. Not like him at all. He did eat some of his breakfast though in a very scared way, he kept running back and forth frantically to the bowl like I was going to yell at him or something. Just bizarre. I took him for a short walk to do his business and that seemed to perk him up, barium poo looks very strange. His behavior is more normal now... back to cuddling and bringing me his little toy pumpkin. But after drinking a little water this morning he regurgitated about an entire cup all over the floor. It is beyond frustrating to go through this.. and put him through this trauma at the vets just to get no where. Besides this issue he acts happy and healthy otherwise... we have no other complications.. the gas showing up in the x rays does scare me since my first shepherd died of bloat. But I don't know what else to do. I'm going to pick up a bag of turkey or lamb tomorrow and see if he does any better on it... are there any commercial raw foods that don't have veggies or fruits in them? I'm wondering if he is just simply sensitive to one of those in his instinct brand. Wish we had some answers but I guess I shouldn't worry since the vet said it wasn't mega e or the hernia, hard not to when you can tell something still isn't right though.

 

[CometDog]

I am sorry you are dealing with this. Poor boy I don't have any ideas...just wanted to say you both have my best wishes to get to the bottom of this.

 

[Magwart]

are there any commercial raw foods that don't have veggies or fruits in them?

Vital Essentials is one. It comes in 3# bags and 5# chubs -- the chubs run about $20. I've occasionally used their beef food, and my dog loves it more than other commercial raw (probably because of the tripe in it).


Wasn't the vet thinking he had a hernia that might be fixed surgically?

 

[GandalfTheShepherd]

Vital Essentials is one. It comes in 3# bags and 5# chubs -- the chubs run about $20. I've occasionally used their beef food, and my dog loves it more than other commercial raw (probably because of the tripe in it).


Wasn't the vet thinking he had a hernia that might be fixed surgically?

Thanks Magwart, I remember seeing that brand now I think our store carries it. Yep vet was sooo sure it was a hiatal hernia , and she found absolutely nothing. She didn't even give me a theory of what else it might be before she hung up. :frown2:

 

[Sunsilver]

My first thought on reading this was I'd be absolutely FURIOUS at my vet if I'd spent all that money, and she then told me I'd have to go to a board certified radiologist if I wanted a more accurate interpretation of the x-rays!

 

[GandalfTheShepherd]

My first thought on reading this was I'd be absolutely FURIOUS at my vet if I'd spent all that money, and she then told me I'd have to go to a board certified radiologist if I wanted a more accurate interpretation of the x-rays!

Furious doesn't even begin to describe it. 600 something odd dollars later we didn't even have in the first place spent, and now he is regurgitating even worse all over the place. This afternoon it was about a cup and a half of fluids. I don't think there is a vet out there in the world that could possibly help him. We've accepted this is who he is, and will just manage the symptoms for the rest of his life and try to keep him as healthy and happy as we can.

 

[Katsugsd]

She didn't offer anything that it might be? That's beyond frustrating. I'm sorry you guys are going through this.


Is there any way to get in touch with UF's veterinary school to see if they can't offer something? I'm not 100% sure what they do offer there, but I do know they have some services.

 

[GandalfTheShepherd]

I sent the x rays as well to a mega e facebook group who took a look at them and their response was this "The barium ones should have included the throat and esophagus, you would have definitely have seen ME on the throat ones... I do believe he has some outpouching in his throat area. I will save these xrays and then circle what I am looking at for you to see. I would call your vet back and ask why they did not include barium of the esophagus."

 

[kr16]

I sent the x rays as well to a mega e facebook group who took a look at them and their response was this "The barium ones should have included the throat and esophagus, you would have definitely have seen ME on the throat ones... I do believe he has some outpouching in his throat area. I will save these xrays and then circle what I am looking at for you to see. I would call your vet back and ask why they did not include barium of the esophagus."

Go on that Yahoo group and post them for Dr Kathy to look at.

I guess I will add to what I pmed you last night. Was trying not to upset you so I calmed it down.

My brother was not happy with the case studies on this and he mentioned numerous times that no barium was in the Esophagus. He didn't get it. My thought was the barium went right through and that was a good sign. He is the radiologist not me. He was also upset they only did one view and nothing past the stomach. He doesn't understand why no barium shows in the Esophagus. He didn't think the Esophagus was enlarged. He wanted to see below the stomach to make sure no issues were down there with the distended tummy and excess gas in the Trachea and stomach.

 

[Pytheis]

Seriously, your vet sounds awful. I would travel two hours just to avoid going to this vet again. I would definitely complain to them, give them a bad review online, then move on. That is WAY too much money for her to be so dismissive and unhelpful. If they didn't even do the test correctly, meaning they didn't get pictures of the esophagus like they should have, I would even consider trying to get some of my money back.

 

[GatorBytes]

Seriously, your vet sounds awful. I would travel two hours just to avoid going to this vet again. I would definitely complain to them, give them a bad review online, then move on. That is WAY too much money for her to be so dismissive and unhelpful. If they didn't even do the test correctly, meaning they didn't get pictures of the esophagus like they should have, I would even consider trying to get some of my money back.

YES!
Sounds like the arrogance of the vet superseded her integrity. You went in with I think this and she thinks that, and she staunchly refused to address your wishes to check the esophagus. Focused your money on her thoughts and then proclaims to not have the radio exp. to dx.???? WTH!!! And passes you on to other while collecting 650 bucks???:surprise:

 

[phps01]

Sorry to hear about your pup....This might sound basic, but has he been checked for campylobacter? When peri had it , it made him throw up in the mornings that led to refusal to eat.... The vet had to do some kind of PCR? test to find it and it was treated with erythromycin.

Phebe.

 

[GandalfTheShepherd]

Quick update on this... I tried getting a hold of the Dr. who did the x rays, and she seems to be in and out of the office around the time I call, odd. But I did get to speak with another Dr. in the same practice and he actually took the time to explain some stuff to me and go over the x rays... He said exactly what we initially thought, that the barium traveled right through the esophagus quickly to the stomach, in a mega e dog the later x ray would have shown barium still stuck in the esophagus, which was not our case. To check what he said I looked at the time stamps on the x rays, the initial x rays before they gave him barium to the time the barium had been given was only a 20 minute time lapse.. in a dog with mega e you would certainly still see barium in the esophagus, either that or his case is so mild I presume... This Dr.s explanation all sounds very logical to me.. although I am not experienced in x rays, he simply could be a good liar. Who knows? I think this does rule out mega e though I still feel they screwed up to some degree... I would have liked to see the barium traveling through the esophagus at the 1,5,10 min mark, etc. ... instead of just the end result after 20 minutes of the barium sitting in the stomach. It would have been easier to look for outpouching and defects in his esophagus if there had been barium at those points as well? I was also lied to when they told me the procedure takes several hours, the time lapse on the photos proves that it only took half an hour or so.... so they lied to me and kept my dog in the back room in a crate and caused him more stress than I think he needed to go through. The first appointment last week they charged us a $57 consult fee since they couldn't perform x rays after 3 aclock, and the time stamp on the x rays were after 3 aclock, so they just wanted an extra $57 from us. I also asked this other Dr. what his theory is then why our dog keeps regurgitating and his response was he probably picked up another parasite somewhere... and to treat him again with albon/flagyl/panacur. He last had an ELSA blood antigen test and clean fecal 5 months ago, vets response was fecals aren't always true, and he could have picked up something since then. He has regurgitated like this since he was 8 weeks old and onward. Thing is, he has had a clean sweep since then.. and he has always had this issue. I am skeptical it is a parasite, but the Dr. said it would be a good thing to rule out instead of spending tons more money looking for a "zebra". I am hesitant to give Gandalf more antibiotics since he has been on and off them pretty much his entire life... each time killing off his good bacteria. I feel like this might slow his recovery, especially if it isn't the problem. Although for some reason unknown to us the regurg has been getting worse consistently over time. Thoughts?

@phps01 I have never heard of campylobacter, at this point we are done testing. He had a full parasite blood panel done a while back and it said he was clean, also around 4 clean fecals or so. I would assume one of those would have shown campylobacter? He has also not been throwing up, its regurgitation. They are very different actions. He also has had perfect stools for the past year.
We have spent all our funds trying to diagnose him, this is an issue he will live with until he dies.

This image shows what the Dr. meant , http://vanat.cvm.umn.edu/vetAnomal/regThorax/TH9.html
After 30 minutes and then even later 2 hours there was still some barium found in the esophagus... Our time lapse was 20 minutes and by that time no barium was found in his esophagus.

 

[Sunsilver]

Camplyobacter jejuni is a nasty bug that can also affect humans. It is frequently found in raw chicken (which is how I was infected when on a trip to England.) It is one of the most frequent causes of food poisoning/ traveller's diarrhea in humans.

I didn't know it could cause problems with dogs, but if you are feeding raw chicken, well, it's a possibility. :frown2: