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Luke, Leela
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I went to the Carmspack website and saw no working titles on any of them, I also didn't see a family tree with any dogs who have worked. Why isn't that information on the website?
 

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I went to the Carmspack website and saw no working titles on any of them, I also didn't see a family tree with any dogs who have worked. Why isn't that information on the website?
I believe more dogs from there have gone to actual working homes--(rcmp, sar, detection, etc..)where they dont get a 'title'. and they aren't necessarily the flashy type of dogs sought out for sport work, titles/trophies. Just my understanding from my research/readings and from speaking with Carmen and Sheena.
 

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I went to the Carmspack website and saw no working titles on any of them, I also didn't see a family tree with any dogs who have worked. Why isn't that information on the website?
Sadly for the GSD world, Carmen is no longer breeding by herself.
Sheena has taken up her torch.
Please read a post from Carmen herself, this will explain a lot of things, Carmen was not into flashy titles, and she bred the GSD for what it was supposed to be: a working dog with superior health and biddability. She knew pedigrees as if she were an encyclopedia.

Carmen was also not into the Internet, Saphire bugged her for years to fix her website.
The truth is, she didn’t need a website, all those pups were spoken for whenever she bred a litter. Most went to police, SAR, etc. The lucky few got one for a pet, but they were not easy dogs by any stretch of the imagination.

Those who are in the know knew what kind of dogs she had.
One was at the US Capitol for many years, serving as a bomb dog, see below.


I did not know where to place this or what to call this thread . Easily I could have placed it in genetic obedience, breeding for work, herding - so Buffy it is because she is the subject of this discussion.

Yesterday was quite the day . I sent a dog that I was thrilled with to Orlando to meet with his new owner , a Veteran of Afghanistan who needed a Service dog . The dog was selected by myself against a set of requirements that I was very familiar with . The dog will be trained and certified by a person well qualified by experience and education, meeting stiff standards of the association he is certified by. By sheer co-incidence the recipient had been a K9 handler himself, and was familiar with "Gore" (Thor) and some other dogs that are in PSD use in Oregon, Washington State, Ohio etc. That the dog was related to the well loved Gore was a bonus. I was sad to see York go , but I am super happy that a persons life will improve .

So I come home , check my emails and my heart gets another tug. An email making contact letting me know of a female dog that I had lost all knowledge of , no contacts, no updates.
This female orginally went to another home -- one of Toronto's most prestigious very wealthy enclaves . They hired a k9 trainer/handler to be their personal trainer . That much I knew .
What I did not know is that somehow this dog entered "dogs available for work" and this is where the story begins .

In the email the person introduced himself and said he had this amazing female who recently retired from service -- and would I have anything related to her now or in the future .
Her sire was Carmspack LeRoy and her dam was Carmspack Anouscha.
WOW . here are some words on LeRoy
-------------------
Start off with this from another thread as a re-cap " love the Maineiche blood that I introduced into my program through Dix -- carmspack leroy - German Shepherd Dog
That male , LeRoy was trained off lead , highly highly biddable , normal conversational tone , praise - no clicker , treating bag of tricks, natural desire to work and to comply -- sweet teddy bear of a dog - everyone loved him -- great looks and conformation . No bad behaviour barking , spinning , digging. Mr Cool when not working.
Totally reliable and dependable. Would take him out to the mondio club and would heel him behind a circle of ring agitation , total self control -- it did not involve him or me and so he minded his own business . We did it off lead .
We did three man agitation with props and things flying , he never shirked going in there and knew which fire to put out first .
Seconds later he would be in the parking lot where my 3 year old granddaughter was playing with her baby friends, children of other club members. He would lick the sweaty chubby arms of the baby in the stroller. He adored children and tolerated nose tweaking.

God I miss that dog --- and Kilo --- same thing (but not Maineiche). The mission was to keep adding depth to old working herding lines which Maineiche conserved.

I do have a dog that is very similar -- Kilo looks , LeRoy character -- long coat bi colour -- will have to x ray him soon for his certification --
His sire Cubby was a narcotic dog working in the school system - same thing rock solid , great in the chaos of young kids being young kids -- representing MATHIAS the long coat bicolour with the pedigree of his brothe Stark who was a certified dual police service dog with Buffalo PD at just over one year of age Carmspack Stark - German Shepherd Dog"

--------- LeRoy's sister was Cinders a narcotic dog with Maricopa County Sheriff's dept. LeRoys brother was a police dog --

Buffy's brother Nash became a PSD .

so I find out that Buffy served in the Capitol Buildings of Washington DC --- bomb dog - renowned for her meticulous attention to detail. She was a "cover" girl , she is the subject in a book --- she was called the Canadian show girl but she is not show lines .

I do have another female working in the same calling -- bomb dog .
Presenting Carmspack Buffy -- featured in the book Badge on my Collar . I had that feeling of instant connection seeing her pictures in the book - -- lump in throad, eyes welling up (seriously) . Here is an excerpt from the book Badge on My Collar II: To Serve With Honor - Marilyn Jeffers Walton - Google Books
 

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I went to the Carmspack website and saw no working titles on any of them, I also didn't see a family tree with any dogs who have worked. Why isn't that information on the website?
If you want a dog that will look good in a ring, find a breeder that produces dogs that look good in a ring. If you want a dog that can work, find a breeder that produces dogs that can work. They are few and far between.
The proof is in the pudding as my Gramma always said.
Most REAL working dogs don't have titles.
 

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If you want a dog that will look good in a ring, find a breeder that produces dogs that look good in a ring. If you want a dog that can work, find a breeder that produces dogs that can work. They are few and far between.
The proof is in the pudding as my Gramma always said.
Most REAL working dogs don't have titles.
Really? So these are puppies with nothing? Not even show titles? This sounds like backyard breeding to me. The proof is the dogs bite is that what you mean? Cuz that's the pudding. They bite and not just one of them. I wouldn't buy a dog without proof of ability to breed without issues. Are both parents OFA? Or PennHip? Or anything besides pets?
There are so many choices for getting a proven dog with pennhip, ofa, parents titled that no one needs to get a dog with a bite history. I hear you're on the defensive and that's ok because the best breeders are obviously not for you. You don't need them and they sure don't need you. Puppies sold before birth.
 

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Really? So these are puppies with nothing? Not even show titles? This sounds like backyard breeding to me. The proof is the dogs bite is that what you mean? Cuz that's the pudding. They bite and not just one of them. I wouldn't buy a dog without proof of ability to breed without issues. Are both parents OFA? Or PennHip? Or anything besides pets?
There are so many choices for getting a proven dog with pennhip, ofa, parents titled that no one needs to get a dog with a bite history. I hear you're on the defensive and that's ok because the best breeders are obviously not for you. You don't need them and they sure don't need you. Puppies sold before birth.
Carmen... a backyard breeder... 🤣😂🤣😂

Now I have heard everything on this forum.

I do believe that not only has she been breeding excellent working dogs for longer than a lot of us have been alive, but that her family did it back in Germany, where she originally came from.
 

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@K9WolfAlpha you said :
Really? So these are puppies with nothing? Not even show titles? This sounds like backyard breeding to me. The proof is the dogs bite is that what you mean? Cuz that's the pudding. They bite and not just one of them. I wouldn't buy a dog without proof of ability to breed without issues. Are both parents OFA? Or PennHip? Or anything besides pets?
There are so many choices for getting a proven dog with pennhip, ofa, parents titled that no one needs to get a dog with a bite history. I hear you're on the defensive and that's ok because the best breeders are obviously not for you. You don't need them and they sure don't need you. Puppies sold before birth.


In reference to Carmspack. I have no clue what you are on about, but please elaborate.
 

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Really? So these are puppies with nothing? Not even show titles? This sounds like backyard breeding to me. The proof is the dogs bite is that what you mean? Cuz that's the pudding. They bite and not just one of them. I wouldn't buy a dog without proof of ability to breed without issues. Are both parents OFA? Or PennHip? Or anything besides pets?
There are so many choices for getting a proven dog with pennhip, ofa, parents titled that no one needs to get a dog with a bite history. I hear you're on the defensive and that's ok because the best breeders are obviously not for you. You don't need them and they sure don't need you. Puppies sold before birth.
Carry on
 

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I don't know Carmen(?), and don't own one of her dogs, but I have taken the opportunity to search her writings out on this forum for a while now. I find myself going to her previous posts, as well as a few others' from a decade ago. Websites are seldom the totality of any person's business, and with a topic as rich as breeding and breed history, why wouldn't anyone want to look for commonality, rather than reduce a stranger without enough information? She has a wealth of experience.
 

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And ironically the first 2 that come up are announcing tracking titles won!
Carmen and Sheena did French Ring in their early days but that was many years ago. She does not like what Shutzhund/IPO/IGP has become and believes those titles no longer do anything to prove breedworthiness. I cannot articulate the way she does to describe her “why’s” and I wish she was well enough to respond herself. I absolutely adore her and our friendship. I trust her more than words can describe. Her and Sheena’s breeding program is very well thought out and planned. Very specific goals to what they feel is the ideal working GSD.
 

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Old thread, mentions hips.

And don’t miss this link she posted:

 

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Old thread, mentions hips.

And don’t miss this link she posted:

This was the lady I was hoping to connect with in North Bay. I believe in total she had three Carmspack dogs.

I find it entertaining that someone who referred to Carmen as a backyard breeder has not bothered to comment on the thread. He seemed so willing to speak on Valors thread.
 

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@K9WolfAlpha :)

Carmen has bred working dogs for 40 years. Both parents of my dog have hip and elbow ratings and genetic testing.

No, her dogs don't have show titles. Few of them have sport titles.

This dog had neither. She was a working dog with 12 real bites and 104 explosive finds in Afghanistan.

576271


That's me and my dog Fama. I went on to be a trainer of military, LE and CWD dogs and handlers for several years. I trained a couple hundred working dogs. Most certainly none of them had titles.

I understand that you have an opinion about what makes a good breeder, and that is all fine and well. Just try to understand that there are thousands of dogs out there that do work, saving lives, that may not fall into your realm of understanding.

This is my thread that you commented on. I suggest that you read it from the beginning and watch the videos before you continue throwing stones.

 

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@David Winners,
Those of us who know your story will admire you and love Fama forever.
We will never forget her.
Valor has huge paws to fill ❤ Glad he is well on his way.
He is well on his way. In some ways he is a better dog (for me) than Fama. She had some baggage :)

She was an amazing dog that taught me a lot and saved my life a lot. She also did amazingly well as a family dog in retirement. She was also 4 when I got her and had a few challenging habits that were less than desirable. I wouldn't trade my time with her for anything, but I feel like I'm closer to Valor. I always said that I wished I had Fama as a puppy. I think she would have been a bit different.

Valor and Fama are very similar in a lot of ways. He often reminds me of her. He is just easy where she was a constant challenge. I think a lot of that is my experience level now compared to brand new handler back then.

If I took a day to decode and describe a perfect dog for me, I think it would be Valor. He's got some things to prove in the future, but it's looking about as good as I could ever hope for at this point.
 

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Fama! @David Winners love seeing pictures of her. Love her story.
Sometimes a dog comes along that changes everything.
Sometimes you get the dog you need and not the dog you want lol. The learning curve was steep and fruitful.
 
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