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Curious about firsthand experiences and thoughts from anyone who has owned or trained with dogs from these lines. Progeny sired by Sagus, by his son Natan, or closely related dogs, in particular. Both of these dogs have long since passed, but if anyone has criticism they'd rather not post publically, I'd happily appreciate a PM.

Sagus vom Busecker Schloß

Natan vom Busecker Schloss

Most of what can be read online seems to highlight Natan's competition career and later stud use via Leerburg, but I'm curious about connecting the dots, and who out there might have observations about his progeny/grand-progeny. I've heard general anecdotal info from some people, and read a few older threads here that touched on Sagus (this one in particular: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/186007-v-sagus-vom-busecker-schlo%DF.html ).

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and insight.
 

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Have you searched on the Pedigree Data base site? Sometimes you can find more people from Germany that have experience with some of the good older lines. But I did find a lot of info about my Gunny's pedigree from some great people here. Just another avenue. I like going and reading the comments you find on a few dogs on the Pedigree site.
 

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I saw a lot of Sagus and Greif Lahntal progeny - first generation , brought in by brokers for LE.

lot os sharp , energetic , reactive , prey dogs .

Greif should be pronounced with a long I , not a long E.
But if not properly bred that Greif could give you grief .

and I did see Nathan progeny -- this goes back a long time --

there was a Sagus daughter owned by a breeder that I went to visit -- stunningly beautiful dog , but
would run into a wall , freeze half in and half out of the guillotined door of the kennel run to avoid being seen.
No pressure or demands -- just my friend in dogs, myself , and the owner , quietly looking . Total flake.

when I think of BUSECKDR SCHLOSS lines which is your thread title , I think of Eros, Sirk, Seffe , Valet --
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Have you searched on the Pedigree Data base site? Sometimes you can find more people from Germany that have experience with some of the good older lines. But I did find a lot of info about my Gunny's pedigree from some great people here. Just another avenue. I like going and reading the comments you find on a few dogs on the Pedigree site.
I fell down that rabbit hole a bit - I didn't post new inquiries but searched some old threads. Some of the dogs I've heard about aren't entered there, so it's going to take a bit more digging. :)

I saw a lot of Sagus and Greif Lahntal progeny - first generation , brought in by brokers for LE.

lot os sharp , energetic , reactive , prey dogs .

Greif should be pronounced with a long I , not a long E.
But if not properly bred that Greif could give you grief .

and I did see Nathan progeny -- this goes back a long time --

there was a Sagus daughter owned by a breeder that I went to visit -- stunningly beautiful dog , but
would run into a wall , freeze half in and half out of the guillotined door of the kennel run to avoid being seen.
No pressure or demands -- just my friend in dogs, myself , and the owner , quietly looking . Total flake.

when I think of BUSECKDR SCHLOSS lines which is your thread title , I think of Eros, Sirk, Seffe , Valet --
Thank you Carmen!
 

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Sagus tended to produce a thinner nerved dog thanks to his mother lines. The few I saw and trained with I didn't like.

Natan had a terrible hip production record, but I never heard anything about how he produced otherwise.
 

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How common is Greif in a papered GSD today? Does it depend on region?

Just curious. I love reading the info people share here re: lines.

I found Greif looking back into the lines of the only papered GSD I've had (FAR back lol, about 5 generations)...my obviously BYB dog who was given to me. It made me wonder just how much influence his line had (had no idea at the time, he was just the only name I recognized). Great dog and I miss him terribly. I always wondered what the story was with that...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I just read the link you provided. Good information, and some that I shared that I had actually forgotten. But I'm with Carmen, I don't think of those two when I think of that kennel.
Thank you Anne - I read through that entire (linked) thread when I started looking into this, really appreciate all the info there. :)
 

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He is probably quite common, not as common as Fero, but quite common if you go back far enough. My first GSD was by a Grief son and out of a Rocco Busecker Schloss daughter. Rocco was out of Seffe by Bernd Lierberg. Tara's breeder was good friends with Alfred Hahn (Busecker Schloss) so knew the dog personally. I have a ton of information on him some where.

My first schutzhund, Treue, was linebred on Greif. She was a very toy driven dog with high fight drive where as Tara was not a high prey dog and neither were any of her littermates or full siblings. Excellent hunt drive, but that could have come through the mother lines. Treue had Greif through Mink (so crossed with Bernd) and then some other old working blood. I liked my dogs going back on Greif, but breeders knew how to use him correctly.

I forgot where I was heading with the above. LOL

I do know that Alfred Hahn liked a sharper dog and some of his later breedings were not as good as his earlier dogs. I, personally, was not a fan of Sagus or the H litter out of Pleuni or what they produced.
 

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nice to see you again Vandal !

anybody remember Pleuni and Half ?
Yes on Half. Did some training with him and quite a few pups when he was imported. Had a son for a short time.

I commented on the H litter in my post. :)
 

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My dog Vandal had a heavy does of blood from this kennel. Linebred on Valet 5-3,4,5 and including Seffe, Crok, Petra, Gina, Zita in the first five gerenerations.
One of the best SchH dogs in the country at that time, really excellent temperament, great with kids and a true protective instinct. Strong social aggression....you did not mess with me and not get a response from Vandal and he did indeed protect me, more than once. We simply do not see many of those kind of dogs any longer. Sad to say.
 

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got some very real - yet very adaptable , social dogs - from a female strongly bred on the bes old
Busecker Schloss dog -- she carried

Veit (Arno) , Imme (combining two power males - Bernd L and Mike Bungalow)
I mean Imme is one to study --- just look at the dam Seffe - keep following the dam
line right through Zita !
master class in breeding Imme vom Busecker Schloß

from pirol Kirxchentalx 2 she carried Valet , and Eros ,

this is the pedigree of that great little female that I owe so much to -- never forgotten , always honored
Idonah Idonah vom Haus Kuhn

when combined with Bernd lines carried by the DDR Ritterberg's dam Burga (Hanka and Pushka Himpel)

got Kilo ---- Carmspack Kilo
tsource of strong, active aggression, and natural tracking and herding instinct


thank you Idonah I owe so much to you .

-- thank you Herr Hahn.
 
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