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Discussion Starter #1
Bursts of extreme hyperactive, like the type selected for "extreme drive" ?????

8 week 2 day old, larger Working Dog sort, Pick Bitch from a 48 kg Police Dog mother, new in home for five days now... On RAW diet, my fourth Shepherd, and I don't ever remember one acting like this:

Background: All is well on feeding and potty training.. Last 24 hours has been flawless.. On food all is well, on chicken and beef mince, two days at mid day a chicken wing She cannot master yet… She eats the niblet end and chews down the other fat end to the bone but cannot get done with the fat center. Maybe She is just not hungry enough… Or has not developed enough chew power...

Only problem, is an increasing frenzy of extreme hyperactivity. She is on the upper end of allowable exercise, but still mid morning or evening, even with another short walk, She goes hyper… I mean ballistic.. I mean like throwing things in the air, jumping up the sides of the box, almost doing flips in the air, bouncing around inside box or cage, tearing up everything like the extremes shown on video of what they call “extreme drive” in the kinds of dogs they want for attack dogs…

I am hoping she grows out of it, otherwise one could think I have an extreme drive sort of dog that goes hyper active… Anyone else experiencing anything like this? She goes so hyper I am almost afraid She will hurt herself. If you pick her up she is mad with her teeth on you and everything, your shirt, anything, and non-stop…
Extreme drive?

And then, after the burst of a half hour or hour or so, She will crash and sleep for hours.. At other times She is happy snuggling and sleeping on your chest or lap, it is just these bursts about twice a day that I have not seen before.

My only guess, is I have converted her to RAW, from Advance Puppy Chow the Breeder used. Is the nutrition of the RAW diet faster burning and She has to adjust to these bursts of energy?

Your thoughts are appreciated... Thank you...

lone Ranger, out on the Last Frontier of Australia with horses, doing "Dances with Wolves" only 4 GSDs.... Oldest 10 y.o. Alpha Male.

 

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Shes only 8 weeks, give it some time and effort and youll figure out how to slow her during the zoomies. My girl does it on occasion and she can get bitey when I stop it but its already less at 4 months. Im not suggesting this, but when my girl was going crazy and then bit me I scruffed her- it didnt help. Then I just SCREAMED NO! and she layed off.
 

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sounds like zoomies, mine does that when she's overtired and needs to be crated for a nap
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yep, we call those zoomies. My cats get them too!

Why do you have to limit her exercise?
Bow Wow, and the rest, thank you.. Zoomies, huh? Will have to introduce that to the Aussie lingo... :wild::D

Now, very intelligent question why to limit her exercise? On the Raw diet growth is slowed a little, and joints do benefit. The problem is that these larger type of Working Dog favored here, is heavier, and we want to make sure their exercise is limited on the younger end. It can slowly step up to play with larger dogs if they are not being bowled over, but what my Breeder wants is very low hip and elbow scores at 12 months. I have the best I could find out of two good lines, and I want to Breed for that strength and aptitude, and temperament, but they have to have very low x-rayed professionally accredited read of low scores on hips, elbows, and fetlocks (I think) before we are accredited to Breed.

Too much repetitive exercise of long walks or anything repetitive, can be detrimental at such an early age. No jumping, no extremes of fetch for too long, no long jogging, no early heavy play with larger dogs, and so on. Now maybe we are being over protective, but the record is very good with this as a guide.. Caesar, "Wolf Caesar" is now 5 1/2 months, and the size of an adult Dog at about 23-24" and 65 lbs. ONLY NOW, am I taking him on my fitness walk/jogs of 20-30 minutes... Instead of shorter walks and a few fetch the ball runs.. And only since 5 months is he allowed to free hand play with the larger dogs for a session of 15-20 minutes morning and evening...

Because these GSD WD types are so large, it is to easy to forget how young they really are, and let them over-do it... That can cause joint stretching of the soft cartiledge and problems later...

Here is Wolf Caesar at 5 months, I am siting down, 6'1" tall, you can see how big he is at about 65 lbs at 5 months in this picture..



I hope this helps you, kind regards, lone Ranger
Out on the Last Frontier with Dogs and Horses... "Dances with Wolves" :cool:
 

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Ill add, zoomies is a dog thing all breeds do it. It has zero meaning as far as a drives. If someone said its a working dog thing or had to do with protectiveness they dont know what they are talking about. Its the opposite of an adult working dog temperament but dont correct it while they are pups unless they are doing damage. Keep their drives up when a pup unless you just want a well behaved dog.
 

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you have an energetic puppy who needs to burn off that energy,

Personally I don't limit my puppies I let them be puppies. Sure you have to watch out and prevent them from jumping into cars, jumping off cliffs:) and no I wouldn't go on a 10 mile hike with an 8 week old. However, they need that exercise to build up muscle tone etc, I think what your seeing is, the burn off from lack of exercise.

Barring an accident, you'll end up with what you end up with. I agree 'energy' in puppies has nothing to do with 'drives'..
 

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Diane - thanks for saying that because I was struggling with the same thing.

At 10 weeks we had a half mile loop through the woods. Puppy Beau and old Grim offlead. Grim teaching Beau the ropes about exploring and keeping track of me, and he would go back and forth between us but run run run, lay down - I just did not push him past his level. It was good for a long nap afterwards.

But no jumping into / out of trucks. Supervised on stairs, no jumping etc.

We do our x-rays in July (age 2) - so I am anxious but have nothing that would cause me to believe we have any issues. Beau is normal sized though at 75lbs for a young adult. I would think though you would want to have solid muscles developing to hold that bones in the hip socket since loose "connections" allow for more damage.
 

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105 lb police dog bitch!!! Holy crap!!!

Zoomies is perfectly normal...my dog is almost 3 and still gets them. Usually its after a pretty long walk that for some reason he decides he needs to sprint back and forth in the apartment. It was cute when he was little. Now, watching an 85 lb dog sprint back and forth in my 700 square foot apartment just gets dangerous.

I don't consider a walk extraneous exercise so I'm not sure why you'd limit a walk. I'd limit things that jocoyn mentioned...jumping, climbing up/down stairs, running on concrete or paved surfaces. As far as running around naturally and exploring dirt roads or fields, I don't think you need to be limiting that. The dog will get tired when it does and you'll figure it out.

I don't like it when breeders worry so much about their dogs going out on walks and thinking it will affect hip scores. I used to do very long walks with my boy when he was young and we just got our OFA yesterday and it was Good/Normal. Nothing would've changed that, its genetics. He also would climb up and down 3 flights of stairs just to go outside and then inside. My opinion is that stronger muscle development helps and doesn't hinder the development of the joints/bones...but then again we're also not raising 120 lb dogs over here.
 

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Sounds like zoomies! Aslan zooms like crazy when I get home from work. All you see is this fawn colored streak darting from room to room, furniture to furniture, up and down the staircases.

I don't limit puppy exercise but I don't force them. I play one-on-one with the puppy a few times a day for 10-20 minutes but if he's zooming around doing his own thing, heck if I'm going to stop him!
 

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I don't do directed exercise with puppies - I let them free roam and self limit - probably not an option for all people, but best for pups imo. No pavement, no hard surfaces, no biking or running on lead, no long hikes with no option for pup for self limiting.

Running, playing, messing around with toys, with other dogs on grass and soft ground is allowed anytime for however long the pup wants - agree with Max that completely restricting activity will do more harm than good - pup needs to develop proper musculature and bones need activity for proper growth - think to people with atrophy after an accident... Neurologically as well - think to how uncoordinated a toddler is, but as they age and with proper muscle memory development, directed movement and accuracy with limbs improves remarkably - same with dogs, need to have exposure, exercise and conditioning for optimal health.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Wow, a 24 hour break through: The consultation with the Breeder, is yes they need to burn off that hyperactivity bursts.. The very best exercise is play with other dogs... Caesar the 5 month old 65 lb Male wants to paw at her, and can hurt her, so I got inventive on the advice of the Breeder.. I do not have one her size, so what I have done is put Caesar on a lead and make him like down, then with her on a lead I let them rough house.. She snarls and snaps and is all over him, growling and biting... Caesar seems to enjoy it and they are both doing mock battle warfare... :D

I have supervised it, and now think this is the answer. Doggie play will reinforce the bond between them, and excercises the whole body and all muscle groups... Caesar is 65 lbs, but is three months ahead of her, and She will gain weight faster and catch up soon...

I got the idea from the Breeder who thinks the puppy play interaction is the best exercise. She makes one of hers lay down on a dog rug and the puppy jumps all over, with normal hyper-active play..

On the joint issue: They just think any long repetitive exercise is what causes potential damage. Like fetching or too long, or too long of walks. I trust their judgement as both these Working Dog lines have all the Alphas over 100 lbs, all healthy, all low joint x-ray scores...

Thank all of you for your input... A half hour of rough puppy play and snarling snapping biting and wrestle, and She just crashed for good nap. Actually both have..

Kind regards, GSD Lover in Oz... :wub:
 
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