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on the bi-color topic...are bi's more prevalent in specific lines? (like how most peolpe associate sables with working lines) just curious, we have a bi, she is from rescue, so no idea, but kindof always wondered...
 

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I've seen white GSDs with the biscuit coloration - I've always called them "sugar cookie ears", but was wondering if anyone had any ideas about a little female we have in rescue.

Mandy is a white GSD with a saddle. It's very very faint, but it is black & tan, not just biscuit colored. Can anyone lend some insight - we've wondered if she might be a mix, but her body type is pure GSD. Sorry, no picture . . .
 

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Dog's can be severely lacking in the expression of black markings. Saddles, masks, mantles can all be reduced to very small size or even missing altogether. There are "solid" tan, red, cream colored GSDs thare are genetically black & tan, but their black markings are so faint as to be almost nonexistant.
 

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It's a somewhat old thread, but very interesting...

Is the masking gene responsible for all solid white dogs of any breed (excepting albinos), such as Samoyeds, Great Pyrenees, solid white American Bulldogs or Siberian Huskies?
 

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I don't know. I haven't studied the genetics of other breeds. Possible, also possibly not. The different breeds often have very different modes of inheritence for color. For example, in most breeds, black is the dominant color. Whereas in GSDs, it's the most recessive.

I would expect how white works, masking or otherwise, would vary from breed to breed as well. I do know in some breeds, solid white is often linked to health issues like deafness (Boxers and Dalmatians come to mind), but in others it isn't.
 

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Quote:For example, in most breeds, black is the dominant color.
I didn't know that. I thought it was usually recessive in canines, but I don't breed, hence my interest is borne of curiosity, not need.

I know deafness in cats is associated with the white spotting gene, rather than the white gene. I suspect it's something similar in canines simply from the breeds where it's color associated (Dals, breeds with harlequin & merle coloring, as well as solid white Boxers & Amer Bulldogs) vs those where it's not(Samoyeds, Great Pyrs, Huskies).

In Dals I don't think the deaf dogs are solid white, but I believe they're usually(always?) blue eyed. I think this is true of the other breeds with color associated deafness, though not true of blue eyed Sibes, even when solid white.

Fascinating stuff. I really should seek out a good book.
 

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the cause of the white in Shepherds is not the same as the cause of the white in the doberman which is not the same as the cause of the white in the boxer.

White at the extension locus - such as shepherds - tends to leave the skin pigmented...and for the most part the whole nose will be black, the pads will be dark, the lips will be black, and you may see some dark spotting along the belly.

You can see that on both of my dogs :



and also here as a puppy :



In boxers I believe the cause of the white is the spotting locus. It's pretty easy to tell spotting whites from extension whites just by the nose :



you'll see that the black nose looks spottier there. I do however think there may be some boxers effected by the extension locus...I think that may explain why some of them seem to have spotted skin underneath the white, and why some are so affected by hearing problems (dogs that have the spotting locus reaching into the ears) and why some are not (might be dogs that have genetically colored ears but is masked by the extension locus).

Dobermans I believe have white caused at the Color Locus - which is the same locus where albinism is caused. I dont know that they are 100% albino as the blue in their eyes does count as pigment - and I'd be curious to see if the health issues are caused by bad breeders or the color...but as it stands they tend to have alot of issues.



This link is to Sheila Schmutz's genetic research...it has a couple of explanations and some hypothesis for the different causes of white in dogs.

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/white.html

And as far as the biscuiting in whites - I tend to think it is the expression of the intensity locus. Dogs that code for what would be deep red in a B/T (the recessive trait at that locus) are going to have more biscuiting (like you see in Ruby) , and whites with little biscuiting (like Leo) would express a higher level of dilution, which is more dominant at that locus.

I hope I articulated that all right and that it helped


~Cate
 

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Yes, & thanks. That's an interesting link, too. Good info, but it's got me more curious rather than less, lol.

It seems color associated deafness is at least similar to the gene in cats with color associated deafness. Do you know if the spotting gene is causative for hearing loss or just tightly linked to it?
 

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Quote:...(dogs that have the spotting locus reaching into the ears)...
I'd always thought it was probably due to being closely linked, but that statement started me wondering.

Quote:...if the spotting locus reaches into the ears than it's going to cause deafness because loss of pigmentation in the inner ear does that.
This statement seems to further confirm it's causative rather than simply linked. That's very interesting. Thanks.
 

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White and black mating

My beautiful Sable 6 yr old Bitch is the result of an all white male parent crossing with her all black female mother. The five resulting pups consisted of 2 all black and 3 sables.
 

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My beautiful Sable 6 yr old Bitch is the result of an all white male parent crossing with her all black female mother. The five resulting pups consisted of 2 all black and 3 sables.
The father was a sable carrying black, recessive for the white masking gene. The mother was black recessive.

The black puppies inherited a black gene from each parent, while the sable ones got a sable gene from the father (dominant) and a black gene from the mother.

There is no way to know which one carries white unles you cross with a white or a known white carrying dog.
 

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I noticed, that's why I only posted about the last comment and not all of the above. I did it mainly for myself, it was a funny genetics exercise :)
 

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Seen a litter like this mom solid black dad solid white. The pups we all almost solid black and the others were black and tan but the tan was very light so would prob be considerd silver and black. No white pups were born out of a litter of 14 or 15.
 

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Seen a litter like this mom solid black dad solid white. The pups we all almost solid black and the others were black and tan but the tan was very light so would prob be considerd silver and black. No white pups were born out of a litter of 14 or 15.
Would have to know the genotypes of the parentsand how color is inherited (probably multiple, interacting genes) to even guess how the mating would come out and what one might expect in the color of the pups!
 
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