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Depending on the dogs, the pairing.....IMO.....no different than breeding *good dogs* period.
But since I've always planned on doing such breedings...I might be biased...
 

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I'm no expert but I'll be brave enough to throw my two cents in.

I think there could be benefits, like Robin mentioned if you have two great dogs and the only "issue" would be one is SL and the other WL then I don't see how it could hurt

On the other hand, they are both bred for entirely different reasons so would most compliment each other, probably not.

Personally I like keeping the lines separate, but if the right dog came along I would definitely be open to the possibility

JMOFWIW
 

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"Line purity" is something I have a distaste for. A lot of folks on this board are adamant that show lines have gone to pot and there's no way to save them... except breed with their far superior working lines, lol! If we're improving the breed and it's done by an exceptionally responsible breeder with extensive knowledge of lines (there's a great thread on here I read all the way through about in-depth lines) why would anyone have an issue with doing so? Like Shade says, the probability of two polar opposite lines being appropriately compatible is low, but I see absolutely no reason not to strive to create a stronger GSD just because of 'line purity'. *hides from working-liners*
 

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It sounds good unless you wind up with a Frankenstein dog like I did. I loved him but while people speculate about getting the best from both lines, you can also get the worst of both lines. ........... I guess the thing I would want to know is would it actually preserve any genetic diversity within the breed or not?
 

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Nancy...that is the same "chance" one takes when doing a close linebreeding......the chance of what is good in the bloodline, and the chance of what is wrong within the bloodline.
I think one *absolutely needs* to bring in new genetics, within bloodlines.
 

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Lucy's a show/work mix. Awesome dog and perfectly balanced.

My next one will (hopefully!) be a work/show mix too.

I don't think just anyone and any dog should be mixed. Whoevers doing the breeding really should understand and know what they're doing. Just my $.02
 

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One of the problems I see..... WL people may not "know" the showlines, and SL people may not "know" the working lines.

Example:
An Am line breeder wants to bring in WL to improve "whatever." But that well intentioned Am line breeder may choose a dog from a pedigree known (to WL people) for low thresholds and reactive aggression. Disaster waiting to happen.
I am NOT knocking anyone, btw! Lack of knowledge is fixable..... I work on it everyday.
 

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I would agree....however, that stands true for "any" breeding.
One should "know" what each breeding can/should/could produce...before....a breeding is considered.
But I also understand that problems can and do arrise, even with the most "thought out" breedings, being it is the creation of living-breathing creatures.....

*I will do this type of breeding/cross...because I believe, that the need for new genetics is crucial....and I (as a breeder) must make choices now, for the generations to come...just as we have made the choices from past to present.*
JMHO...
 

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I have a ASL/EGWL cross and he is a fabulas dog. We are doing obedience and agility and he has some points toward his AKC championship. He is 2 1/2 now, so we will see how far he can go.
 

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I wouldn't buy a work/show cross unless it was done by a knowledgeable and experienced breeder. For example kennel von Arlett. Even then, after doing more research, I would probably only buy a 2nd or 3rd generation progeny from a SL/WL cross. I take issue when it is done haphazardly by breeders that don't have the necessary background or knowledge to do these type of pairings, but I suppose that could be said of any dog, breeder, or lines.
 

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Jinopo is currently doing a working-showline cross. It has received some less than enthusiastic feedback, but is also a repeat breeding. It is said that this breeding produced "balanced, naturally protective dogs with proper balance of drives. Calm, but protective with good prey drive for any work". The sire is also 1/4 showline and seems to be a magnificent dog. I think breeders that truly understand the bloodlines and genetics of these dogs have a better chance of improving the breed.
 

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On the other hand, they are both bred for entirely different reasons so would most compliment each other, probably not.
Personally I like keeping the lines separate, but if the right dog came along I would definitely be open to the possibility

I don't understand this and probably never will. To see the breed reach a point where people actually expect and accept that the show lines are going to be totally different from the working lines (and vice versa) seems very wrong.
It's one thing to acknowledge the differences on a dog by dog basis, but to ignore the possiblity that a good show line might be the perfect compliment to a good working line because we don't want to see the lines mixed makes no sense on any level. Keeping the lines separate only widens the gap in the breed and diminishes their ability to be total dogs. IMHO
 

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I don't understand this and probably never will. To see the breed reach a point where people actually expect and accept that the show lines are going to be totally different from the working lines (and vice versa) seems very wrong.
It's one thing to acknowledge the differences on a dog by dog basis, but to ignore the possiblity that a good show line might be the perfect compliment to a good working line because we don't want to see the lines mixed makes no sense on any level. Keeping the lines separate only widens the gap in the breed and diminishes their ability to be total dogs. IMHO
^ This

Definitely a more articulate version of what I was getting at, haha!
 

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I don't understand this and probably never will. To see the breed reach a point where people actually expect and accept that the show lines are going to be totally different from the working lines (and vice versa) seems very wrong.
Yes, it does seem wrong. Unfortunately, it's way things have become with the GSD. In fact most working breeds have established both a working line and a show line. They may look and behave vastly different from one another, but each thinks it's the best, the "truest" representation of the breed. Working lines won't breed to show lines because it might reduce working ability. Show lines won't breed to working lines because it might reduce their chances of winning in the conformation ring.

I don't like it any more than you do, but it's the reality of the situation.

Personally, I think both camps need to focus on a common goal and become more proactive in breeding for the best of both worlds--the "Golden Middle". Unfortunately, for the reasons given above, it is complicated. When crossing lines, it seems like the first generation often gets the worst of both instead of the best of both--especially if the breeder doesn't know what they're doing. Say you have a gorgeous, beautifully moving show dog with weak nerves and low drives. You breed him to a rather plain-looking working line female who has intense prey and defense drive. What you hope for are beautiful puppies with strong drives. What you will likely end up with are plain-looking pups with good drives but weak nerves. They aren't pretty enough to win in the conformation ring. They have enough energy and drive to require an outlet for it, but are too weak-nerved to do well in SchH work. Some of these kind of dogs don't even make good pets, because weak nerves + high drives + inexperienced GSD owner = trouble.

This is what most breeders are afraid of, and why they don't often mix the lines together.

But I still think breeders should be actively looking for a solution to the working/show split. However, many will argue that there isn't a problem.

I hope I live to see a day where ALL GSD's are sound in mind and body and capable of excelling in the work, regardless of bloodline. Of course I already think all of them are beautiful... except, ironically, for some of the VA dogs.
 

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For me personally, I like the WL dogs the way they are,(especially the lines we tend to go with) so why add SL to it? I could see if I wanted a larger WL dog, or the color was something I wanted to change. We have 6 WL dogs in our house (yes, in the house and yes, together :)) and they are all good house dogs. I'm not sure what the addition of SL to these lines would accomplish.
My experience with SL is less, we have 2 in the house (yes, with the 6 WL dogs) and they make great house dogs as well. The drive on the field is good in one, and so-so in the other.
I think it was Lee (Wolfstraum) who said in another thread that in the horse world, the breeds also have definite splits between the performance and show horses and they are fine with it. Working Quarter Horses (that may compete in barrel racing or the like) are pretty different than the QH you see in the Halter classes. The horse people seem to have no big issue with it.
I don't know that you will ever get a Golden Middle within the breed at this point, I think most breeders would be aiming for the Golden Middle within their type.
 

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Interesting that this thread came up....

I have been trying to find a new puppy and was/am really undecided whether I want to try a SL or go back to another WL dog.

Just yesterday, I noticed that one of the local breeders, who is well known for their WL dogs, has a litter on the ground with a father who is also the father of a litter on the ground from a well known local SL breeder.

I've emailed both, asking which one is the cross and why, but so far neither has responded.
 

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Interesting that this thread came up....

I have been trying to find a new puppy and was/am really undecided whether I want to try a SL or go back to another WL dog.

Just yesterday, I noticed that one of the local breeders, who is well known for their WL dogs, has a litter on the ground with a father who is also the father of a litter on the ground from a well known local SL breeder.

I've emailed both, asking which one is the cross and why, but so far neither has responded.
I don't understand the question of "which one is the cross" ?
 
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