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Discussion Starter #1
Is it common for a Breeders vet to come to a different opinion about Hip dysplasia than your vet when there are hip grantees in effect? I had my dogs hips X-Ray at 1 year yesterday and my vet felt they were displaystic. I emailed the same x-ray photos to the breeder and 10 minutes later got a reply that his vet looked at them and said they were not and to get and OFA rating. Is this common that vets disagree about these things? I am going to go ahead and get the OFA rating just to know but I'm curious is this common? I would have thought that with something like that vets would agree in general but maybe not.
 

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Yes, it is very common. Unfortunately many general practice vets do not have a lot of experience in properly interpreting x-rays, or even taking x-rays with proper positioning (as is evidenced by many threads in the Show Me Hips) section. This often leads to misdiagnosis. I have seen a few cases of regular GP vets saying a dog didn't have a problem when one was clearly there, and many, many, many cases of GP vets saying that there was a huge problem, including recommending euthanasia or surgery to fix it, when in fact there was no problem at all. I even know of one puppy put down at the vet's recommendation because he was showing pain, when in fact the pup had pano and not HD.. as was obvious on the x-ray when they were viewed by a competent ortho specialist at a later time, but unfortunately the puppy was already dead. And another case where a club member was told by his vet, at a very fancy, supposedly well respected clinic, that his OFA Good rating was dysplastic and anything less than Excellent means that the dog had dysplasia. A simple read through the OFA website would contridict that, but this vet was completely convinced that her totally inaccurate, ignorant opinion was correct and shared it with who knows how many clients.

Most breeders seek out vets who are very experienced and qualified with regard to hip and elbow x-rays so more often than not they are working with a vet who is better at this than the vets many customers use. This is why for contracts/warranties getting an impartial, qualified opinion via something like OFA is the way to go.
 

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I just looked at your other thread. Just my opinion, but they looked fine at 6 months and they look fine now at a year. Not sure what your vet sees. I think they'd pass if sent to the OFA for grading.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I just looked at your other thread. Just my opinion, but they looked fine at 6 months and they look fine now at a year. Not sure what your vet sees. I think they'd pass if sent to the OFA for grading.
If that is the case that would be a huge relief! I asked her to send them to the OFA so I can have some peace of mind.
 

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I can see maybe the right hip (left side of x-ray) being the only thing he's seeing, but even that hip looks OFA fair at worst to me. Just wait to see what they come back with before you start with more shots and treatments.

And is he or has he ever shown any signs of pain? Any hesitation to get up steps or jump up? Anything like that?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I can see maybe the right hip (left side of x-ray) being the only thing he's seeing, but even that hip looks OFA fair at worst to me. Just wait to see what they come back with before you start with more shots and treatments.

And is he or has he ever shown any signs of pain? Any hesitation to get up steps or jump up? Anything like that?
The right side is the one she said she saw it in. She does sometimes do the bunny hop run and will sometimes sit lazy, but she will also sit perfect and run perfect too. She has not shown signs of pain. She is a little hesitant on stairs but I think that is because she has a slip on some a month ago she wasn't hesitant before that. She doesn't bunny hop up stairs. She does slip sometimes on hardwood floor, but so did my old dog they are pretty slick. Never enough of a slip to actually fall though.
 

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I would send them to OFA for an opinion.
A breeder has the right to request for an OFA opinion for the same reasons that Chris Wild outlined. Too many vet clinics don't have the expertise to do a good plate nor to read and interpret them. OFA sort of settles the question .
I would question the right hip . Wonder if under the "a" stamp this might go as an NZ?? OFA I think right hip might be mild?
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/show-those-hips/379889-one-year-old-hd-x-ray-opinions.html
Interested in hearing what OFA has to say about this one.

I don't think this will interfere or prevent this dog from being a good companion animal . Just pay attention to weight, condition, and anti inflammatories such as MSM
 

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Bunny hopping and a goofy sit isn't really a sure sign of any problems. Pain or signs of pain would be my #1 indicator.

So far you've got 1 vet saying they're fine and the other saying there's a problem. Wait for the OFA to give their opinion. It's their specialty to analyze x-rays. Go from there.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I would send them to OFA for an opinion.
A breeder has the right to request for an OFA opinion for the same reasons that Chris Wild outlined. Too many vet clinics don't have the expertise to do a good plate nor to read and interpret them. OFA sort of settles the question .
I would question the right hip . Wonder if under the "a" stamp this might go as an NZ?? OFA I think right hip might be mild?
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/show-those-hips/379889-one-year-old-hd-x-ray-opinions.html
Interested in hearing what OFA has to say about this one.
I requested my vet get the OFA paperwork ready, I will have them sent out tomorrow. Regardless I am not going to trade my dog for a new puppy, I am attached and love her she is staying with me regardless.
 

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I requested my vet get the OFA paperwork ready, I will have them sent out tomorrow. Regardless I am not going to trade my dog for a new puppy, I am attached and love her she is staying with me regardless.
Even if that right hip ends up being bad, they're not horrible by any means. They could be much much worse. The right supplements, a healthy weight, and a good diet and the dog might never show any symptoms his whole life. As a pet, there's no reason to ever consider trading him in for a new pup.
 

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it is not a matter of the OP trusting her vet , the breeder needs to be confident in the competency - OFA is the final arbitrator settling disputes .
The x ray is good .

I don't see any reason why you would or should have to give up your dog to get any support from the breeder . That is emotional blackmail letting them off the hook. I wonder if the breeder would consider some form of a refund to help you out with future care expenses . You x rayed the dog and provided her with feedback on what this animal or this combination produced. Perhaps other pup owners will also x ray and give a clear picture on hip statistics . So with that the breeder gains with information, helpful in making choices. Your part of the deal will have to be that you do not breed the dog .
hope things work out for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
it is not a matter of the OP trusting her vet , the breeder needs to be confident in the competency - OFA is the final arbitrator settling disputes .
The x ray is good .

I don't see any reason why you would or should have to give up your dog to get any support from the breeder . That is emotional blackmail letting them off the hook. I wonder if the breeder would consider some form of a refund to help you out with future care expenses . You x rayed the dog and provided her with feedback on what this animal or this combination produced. Perhaps other pup owners will also x ray and give a clear picture on hip statistics . So with that the breeder gains with information, helpful in making choices. Your part of the deal will have to be that you do not breed the dog .
hope things work out for you.
The contract reads that is at the discretion of the breeder. So who knows? She won't be bred regardless I will leave that to the knowledgeable breeders.
 

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what is at the discretion of the breeder ?? that you don't get some refund?

that is so wide open and vague. Agree with Lucy dog . Get the facts from OFA. Communicate the results to the breeder. Continue to love your dog , do the best by them and for them. Enjoy.
 

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My warranty reads that x-rays must be submitted to the OFA. It is true that too many vets get it wrong.

This dog's x-rays look like I would definitely want an OFA opinion on them. They can change yet, and only a pre-lim can be done at this point. But, I wouldn't worry over-much about those hips, and I would probably not be considering getting anything back from the breeder at this point because of them.
 

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Things like this is why the scores on OFA aren't official until the dog is over two and they have finished growing and developing. A part of what can cause trouble is based on growth/development and the different things that can happen. Really nasty from the start HD is hard to miss. My first dog had her hips splay out from under her and she would yelp in pain and struggle to get up. That was at only a few months. Her hips eventually had surgery.

I work with a radiologist and the reason that people send him radiographs to review is that he has been specifically taught to see what most people would miss. I've learned a lot from him. The x-rays done on my female GSD and my roommate's both got different ratings between what the general vet believed and what the radiologist saw. My girl was given bad and my roommates good, but the radiologist found evidence of early OA on my roommates dog and saw nothing wrong with my girl's hips. I took both rads myself and I take things for the surgeons so I know they were correct lol.

Never hurts to have a third unbiased party say something (or in other words OFA) to see where that falls. :) I still plan to send my golden's in and do PennHIP on my girl even if her OFA was good.


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Discussion Starter #19
I will be interested to see what the OFA results say. Do you think there is a downside other than the cost to giving the Adaquan? Shouldn't it help the joints either way? When I was reading about it I read it didn't have a big impact on th kidneys like other drugs.
 
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