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OK everyone I need some help with the situation I find myself in

When I purchased my puppy this summer from a local breeder
I signed an agreement with this party.This agreement went missing we believe at a recent visit by said breeder. I have knowledge this party has retrieved two siblings from people who purchased them, claiming they were not cared for in the manner covered in the agreement and then resold to new homes.:eek:
I am told this agreement states we are also unable to give away, gift or sell our dog. Should this occur, the registration and animal immediately revert back to being owned by the breeder and must be returned immediately at our expense to the breeder for disposal as breeder sees fit.:cry: After hearing about this situation myself and my SO are gravely concerned about our dog should we try any of the above. Or for some unseen reason be taken back like the other two without justification.
My question to any breeders on the board, would this be considered a normal clause and if not would you think it to be binding legally. Like does this person have the right to do something like this without doing it legally. Like you come home one day and your dog is gone or you let it out to potty and it disappears.
I shudder now each time I let him out and can't sleep at night over this.
Little one replaced a heart dog I lost unexpectedly this summer and I don't think I could handle the loss of another one.
I look forward to any feedback on this situation.
PS I am up in Canada if that helps any
 

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I do not know anything about dog laws in Canada.

If you signed an agreement that said dog cannot be chained in the yard. If the breeder sees the dog chained in the yard, then they can sue for breach of contract and get the dog back.

I really doubt that most breeders would try this, but it is better to be safe than sorry. If you agreed to do certain things, do those things. To take you to court and take your dog, she has to prove that you did not fulfill your part of the deal. And it will cost her money.

Coming onto the property and removing the dog would be considered theft here, and possibly grand theft, depends on the value of the object stolen, the dog in this case.

Here is the thing. A breeder does not want to go through the process of selling you dog all over again. She wants the dogs in good homes and to stay in a good home. She will get a terrible reputation if she is taking dogs she sold back without good cause and reselling them for a profit.

Breeders care about the puppies they whelp. They raise them for a couple of months and care what happens to them, they may feel responsible for them long after they leave the nest. Some breeders add a clause, right to first refusal. That is, you cannot rehome the dog without first contacting the breeder and giving them an opportunity to buy back the dog. This is done to protect the dog. The breeder may be in a better position to find a suitable home for the dog, and to keep track of the dog.

If I signed a contract, I would abide by the terms in the contract, however unenforceable they seem to me. If I agreed not to rehome, sell, give away a dog, then I would not do it. But I would probably not sign such a contract.

If you pay x amount for a dog, and the breeder does not co-own the dog, then you should be able to sell the dog.
 

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I am not a breeder, but I do rescue and always place my fosters with a contract. I do set out in the contract the required living conditions for the dog. The new owner(s) read and review and we go over every condition in detail before anyone signs anything.

What did the contract you signed say? As long as you're keeping the dog in compliance with the contract, why worry about the dog being taken from you? If the dog were to be taken from you by the breeder, as long as you are in compliance with the contract, wouldn't you be able to call the police and have the stolen dog returned to you? Without a signed contract to back the breeder up, wouldn't taking the dog be theft?

If you signed a contract where you agreed not to "give away, gift or sell" the dog, then you should abide by the terms of the contract you signed and you shouldn't do any of those things. If the contract that you signed doesn't say that, why worry about not being able to do it?
Sheilah
 

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Can't the breeder send you another copy of your agreement? Or is the breeder any enemy combatant ?!

Caveat Emptor
 

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I am told this agreement states we are also unable to give away, gift or sell our dog. Should this occur, the registration and animal immediately revert back to being owned by the breeder and must be returned immediately at our expense to the breeder for disposal as breeder sees fit.:cry: After hearing about this situation myself and my SO are gravely concerned about our dog should we try any of the above.
Are you planning on giving your dog away or selling it? If not, then you have nothing to worry about. It's very standard that breeders want the dog to be returned to them if you're unable or unwilling to keep it for any reason, and they find a more suitable home for it.

Do you have factual details about the circumstances where the two previous dogs were taken back by this breeder? If you truly have concerns about this breeder basically stealing your dog, then don't let it outside without supervision.
 

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The way I'm taking this, you are concerned the breeder may have "stolen" your contract and may try to take your dog from you? For the specific purpose of gaining profit?

Your breeder should have retained a copy of the contract when it was signed by all parties. There should be no reason for them to take your. I would contact the breeder, explain you misplaced your contract and would like a copy of it.

I don't see how a breeder can just come in and take the dog without grounds, proven in court. As Sue stated, if the contract specifically stated the dog could not be kept in a certain circumstance and they found it was then that is grounds. But they would still have to prove it in court.
 

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I signed a contract pretty much like what your saying. I had no problem with it at all. In fact, the contract was a plus for me with our breeder. To me it showed how much they value the life of pups/dogs they breed and care for. If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about:)
 

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If the buyer registers the dog in her name through AKC - and then the seller (breeder) takes the dog back, the dog remains registered in the buyers name, correct? The breeder can't request AKC to change the ownership of the dog with out the buyers consent, right?
 

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If the buyer registers the dog in her name through AKC - and then the seller (breeder) takes the dog back, the dog remains registered in the buyers name, correct? The breeder can't request AKC to change the ownership of the dog with out the buyers consent, right?
This would be my guess but I don't know how CKC works in Canada where the OP lives!
 

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That sounds like a standard clause in any good breeder's contract that I've read. One that I completely agree with.

As to how enforceable it is? I don't know. Dogs are property and once its sold the buyer owns it and may do with it as they please. Not many judges would rule in favor of the breeder unless there is over powering evidence of neglect/abuse.
 

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The contract terms sound reasonable to me. Unfortunately, there are some real nutzzz in this world, some who are jerks & *shudder* those who are both. A nutso jerk, whether buyer or seller, can make life an unmitigated helllll for the other party. I hope that's not the situation with this breeder.

RA, if it's in your contract that you're not to give away, gift or sell our dog, you should abide by what you've agreed to. Terms that are onerous to you s/b settled prior to purchasing your pup, & not questioned or disputed later.

IF you're concerned the breeder will unfairly reclaim your dog, do not let him outside unattended EVER.

Some years back, a Missouri West Highland Terrier breeder discovered that one of her Iowa buyers was keeping the bitch outside & had bred her. This was a violation of her contract, which stated the bitch was to be kept in the house & wasn't to be bred.

The breeder tried to reclaim the bitch with the assistance of LE, but met massive indifference as it's a civil not a crminal matter. The breeder hopped the fence, took the bitch & returned to Missouri. The Iowa owner tried to file charges & met massive indifference b/c it was a contractual dispute, not a criminal matter.

IMO, the breeder was absolutely in the right in that particular situation. I applauded her chutzpah. However, she did not prevail b/c she was *right*. She prevailed b/c the matter was outside the purview of LE. Consequently they didn't care who had the dog or what the contract said.
 

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So far we have been unable to get the pup's actual papers, its now been almost seven months of every excuse you can think of. When I phoned CKC in October the litter was still unregistered. I phoned between Christmas and New Years to discover said litter was now registered but in breeders name only. To date I have had nothing sent/given to me via the breeder. I am gravely concerned as all I have is a dated bill of sale but the microchip and papers both say he is registered in The BREEDERS name.
As far as the other two puppies, one person was never given a bill of sale and the other one has no documentation either as the person had only one more payment to make but was always given excuses why receipts were not forthcoming. Party buying puppy on terms had only one more payment to make when seller confiscated puppy and has since resold dog.
So I take it that it is a case of he said, she said.
This is frustrating me to no end.
Makes the hair on the back of my head stand up!
So far breeder is flat out denying any involvement in the disappearing contract, has no intentions of providing another one, so only by memory can I abide by the "contract"
Kinda leaves me in a no win situation doesn't it
How can you follow the rules if you don't know what they are and they keep changing to suit the "breeder" HMMMMMMM
'Any further thoughts or suggestions???
Needless to say our next puppy buying experience will be elsewhere and hopefully without the pitfalls this one has been.
 

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Call the CKC and make a complaint against the breeder. If you are sold a purebred you are entitled to papers. Unless there is a clause in your contract that states the dog has to be altered before the owner receives them you should have them in hand by now.
 

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I would demand papers and a copy of the contract. Was this a BYB? Just curious. When I bought Zeb from the breeder I was handed AKC registration (for me to do it my name) and everything. This whole things sounds crazy.
 

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There seem to be a multitude of red flags here. Again, NEVER leave your pup outside unattended. If possible, when taking him out have have another person with you.

Keep copies of any & all correspondence. Document as much as you can of this saga. As Angelas suggested, file a complaint against the breeder with the CKC. Also, make several copies of the dated bill of sale. Secure them with several people &/or multiple places as it appears this is the only documentation you currently have proving that you purchased him.

Djibouti's litter was AKC registered in the breeder's name while individual pups were AKC registered to the respective owners. I'm not familiar with the CKC, but I'd think it would be similar. I was given the registration forms when I picked him up & it was then up to me to register him if I chose to do so.

Despite your justifiable frustration remain calm, level headed, professional & pleasant at all times. (I'm a notorious hot head & have slooowly learned it's a huge turn off to people. Regardless of how *right* my position is, when I lose it, people only perceive the moltenwaves of anger I'm giving off.)
 

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I am assuming the dog is paid for in full. If so, in Canada, the dog is now your property. She cannot lawfully "repo" the dog. It would be considered a theft.
She can attempt to sue for breach of contract if she wishes. The outcome of a civil suit can be monetary, declaratory or injunctions.
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/dept-min/pub/just/08.html

The two that may apply here are the following monetary and declaratory.
Monetary is obvious, she is seeking compensation.
Declaratory settles things like dispute over property. I am not sure this would apply here since there is no dispute over who owns the dog, simply that you are not following the contract. Of course, this may depend on wording of the contract.
If the contract is worded in a way that would allow for repossession of ownership, it is certainly going to require she prove that you have breached that clause. In civil court, decisions are based on a balance of probabilites as opposed to beyond a reasonable doubt in Criminal court.
I suspect there may be an issue with what exactly not properly caring for the dog is. If the breeder didn't explicitly lay it out, she may have difficulty in court as well.

In my experience, breeders often write up contracts that they cannot enforce. Usually, there is no need to act on these clauses.
Many breeders now include a penalty clause, as in failing to neuter as per the contract is a penalty of $1000. The breeder could sue for that penalty if the party failed to provide proof of neutering, and would be successful.

As for requiring the dog go to her first if you decide to sell it, that is pretty typical. It is something I like to see from a breeder and I have no issue with the clause.

Bottomline is she can't just come and take your dog without at least going through a court proceeding (and even then, I highly doubt she would be successful). If she does, I would immediately notify the authorities. Like someone else suggested, start keeping documentation of everything that is going one. Request a copy of the contract.
 

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The contract terms sound reasonable to me. Unfortunately, there are some real nutzzz in this world, some who are jerks & *shudder* those who are both. A nutso jerk, whether buyer or seller, can make life an unmitigated helllll for the other party. I hope that's not the situation with this breeder.

RA, if it's in your contract that you're not to give away, gift or sell our dog, you should abide by what you've agreed to. Terms that are onerous to you s/b settled prior to purchasing your pup, & not questioned or disputed later.

IF you're concerned the breeder will unfairly reclaim your dog, do not let him outside unattended EVER.

Some years back, a Missouri West Highland Terrier breeder discovered that one of her Iowa buyers was keeping the bitch outside & had bred her. This was a violation of her contract, which stated the bitch was to be kept in the house & wasn't to be bred.

The breeder tried to reclaim the bitch with the assistance of LE, but met massive indifference as it's a civil not a crminal matter. The breeder hopped the fence, took the bitch & returned to Missouri. The Iowa owner tried to file charges & met massive indifference b/c it was a contractual dispute, not a criminal matter.

IMO, the breeder was absolutely in the right in that particular situation. I applauded her chutzpah. However, she did not prevail b/c she was *right*. She prevailed b/c the matter was outside the purview of LE. Consequently they didn't care who had the dog or what the contract said.
I don't disagree with what the breeder did.
But both parties did have another recourse, civil court.
I understand why the breeder didn't want to go that route, as it would be costly in time.
The owner likely didn't care enough to spend the money and time to pursue it civily.

Its not that LE doesn't care, it is that they do not have the authority to act on it. Civil matters are civil matters.
 

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I agree, it's nice to see that your breeder cares about their pups and will do what is needed to keep them safe.
 

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So far we have been unable to get the pup's actual papers, its now been almost seven months of every excuse you can think of. When I phoned CKC in October the litter was still unregistered. I phoned between Christmas and New Years to discover said litter was now registered but in breeders name only. To date I have had nothing sent/given to me via the breeder. I am gravely concerned as all I have is a dated bill of sale but the microchip and papers both say he is registered in The BREEDERS name..
Possession is still 9/10ths of the law. You have proof you paid for the dog. You have the dog. You have vet bills, etc.
Document all of the attempts you make to obtain the proper paperwork and complain to the CKC.


As far as the other two puppies, one person was never given a bill of sale and the other one has no documentation either as the person had only one more payment to make but was always given excuses why receipts were not forthcoming. Party buying puppy on terms had only one more payment to make when seller confiscated puppy and has since resold dog.
So I take it that it is a case of he said, she said..
The buyer should know better than to pay amounts of money with no receipt given immediately.

IF you notice, I stated I assumed your dog was paid for in full. If not, it changes the game. The owner does have an ability to repossess the dog, although it should still be through legal means.


How can you follow the rules if you don't know what they are and they keep changing to suit the "breeder" HMMMMMMM
'Any further thoughts or suggestions???
Needless to say our next puppy buying experience will be elsewhere and hopefully without the pitfalls this one has been.

The rules can't change. If there is a civil suit she will need to provide the original document with both signatures on it.
Yes, you can't remember exactly, but the rules aren't changing, they are still the ones you agreed to.
 

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Bottomline is she can't just come and take your dog without at least going through a court proceeding (and even then, I highly doubt she would be successful). If she does, I would immediately notify the authorities.
(bolding added)
Your absolute best course is to not permit this to happen.

It's unlikely she wants to take you to court. The outcome is iffy & it's a huge PITA. Conversely, you too should avoid that scenario. IF she managed to purloin your dog, LE might treat it as they did here with the Westie, ie point out it's really a 'contract dispute' & advise the respective parties to hash it out in court. Rarely a good idea. Often a gawdawful idea. Protect yourself & your dog & avoid that by accompanying him at all times when he's outside. There's some truth to that tired old adage 'Possession is 90% of the law'.
 
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