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Which option best represents your opinion?

  • There SHOULD be a breed standard and breeders should breed to it (not intentionally breed outside it

    Votes: 43 59.7%
  • There SHOULD be a breed standard, but breeders should be "allowed" to breed specialized GSDs

    Votes: 6 8.3%
  • There SHOULD be a breed standard, but it should be different than it currently is (You pick which on

    Votes: 5 6.9%
  • There SHOULD be a breed standard, but rules are made to be broken

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • There SHOULD be a breed standard, but there needs to be different versions for different types or li

    Votes: 15 20.8%
  • There SHOULD be a breed standard, but we shouldn’t talk about it on the forum so no one will be offe

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • There SHOULD NOT be a breed standard

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 2.8%

  • Total voters
    72
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
It seems like every time the breed standard is mentioned in a thread, someone inevitably gets very upset and defensive. This amazes me. I have never read a post where someone said that a non-standard GSD was not worthy of love. I have only read people saying that BREEDING should be done according to standard.

The repeated defensiveness makes me wonder if people are just not understanding what is being said, or if they just disagree with there being a breed standard. This poll is to satisfy my curiousity.

Please vote for the choice that best represents your viewpoint or choose "Other" and explain below.
 

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I am an "other."

I think that there should be a breed standard and people should do their best to stay within it, but if they have a dog that is exceptional in many ways, and only a minor variance, like 1/2 inch over or under standard height, one should not throw out the baby with the bath water.

Of course there are standards, and each can be interpreted many ways. We will not ever all agree on how it should be interpreted.
 

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I think because this is a GSD forum passions run high. Doesn't matter whether the subject is breed standard, rescue, or dogs that bite.

In the real world outside the forum, the world of puppy mills, pet store dogs, some BYB's, a friend or relative who has a couple of dogs and want one litter, humane society dogs, rescue dogs nobody cares about this stuff.

Most people want a dog for their family. They don't know about or care about breed standards.

I think there should be a breed standard
 

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Boy this is a tricky one. I chose There SHOULD be a breed standard, but there needs to be different versions for different types or lines. Because not everyone wants a really really high drive dog but there are those that do.
 

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Because not everyone wants a really really high drive dog but there are those that do.
Not that I am an expert on the breed standard but I don't think a really really high drive is part of the standard. The GSD should be able to do many different things with drives and a temperament within standard including sport or being a pet.
 

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I am an "other."
I think that there should be a breed standard and people should do their best to stay within it, but if they have a dog that is exceptional in many ways, and only a minor variance, like 1/2 inch over or under standard height, one should not throw out the baby with the bath water.
Of course no dog is perfect. Every dog has faults, but ideally, we would choose a breeding partner that is strong where our dog is weak. So for example if your dog is 1/2 inch over the standard, but outstanding in every other aspect, you would breed to an equally outstanding bitch whose lines run toward the smaller size within standard.
 

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Boy this is a tricky one. I chose There SHOULD be a breed standard, but there needs to be different versions for different types or lines. Because not everyone wants a really really high drive dog but there are those that do.
I don't think the standard mentions "really really high drive".

If you want two different standards, you would have to split the GSD into two different breeds, like they did with American/English Cockers, American/English Foxhounds, and so on.
 

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There SHOULD be a breed standard and breeders should breed to it (not intentionally breed outside it)
I voted for the above.

I don't think I need to explain my take on this any further.
 

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Of course no dog is perfect. Every dog has faults, but ideally, we would choose a breeding partner that is strong where our dog is weak. So for example if your dog is 1/2 inch over the standard, but outstanding in every other aspect, you would breed to an equally outstanding bitch whose lines run toward the smaller size within standard.
There is a danger in this.

What I do is, where my dog is weak, I try to breed to a dog who is correct. So I would not breed an over-angulated dog to an under angulated dog. You would breed a dog with less angulation to a dog with proper angulation.

I would not try to breed a bitch that is 1/2 inch too large to a dog on the lower end of the height range, I would breed to a dog who is as average as possible, but I think that I would be more likely to pick the right dog for the bitch, and check the height on the dog and if it falls within the ideal range, 24-26 inches (I know the German Standard is in centimeters and it is a little smaller), than it is a go.

If you take a large bitch and breed her to a large dog, you might be breeding for over-sized dogs. If you have an awesome 29 inch dog, and you breed it to a 22 inch bitch, that just does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling. What I have done is bred a 24.5 inch bitch to a 25.5 inch dog with good results.
 

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There is a danger in this.

What I do is, where my dog is weak, I try to breed to a dog who is correct. So I would not breed an over-angulated dog to an under angulated dog. You would breed a dog with less angulation to a dog with proper angulation.
Right. You wouldn't want to breed a bitch with an overbite to a male with an underbite, either... it just doesn't work that way. :)

If you have an awesome 29 inch dog, and you breed it to a 22 inch bitch, that just does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling. What I have done is bred a 24.5 inch bitch to a 25.5 inch dog with good results.
I guess what I meant to say is, if my dog were too tall, I'd want a bitch whose bloodlines do not have a tendency to go oversize (or undersize), but right within the standard. If some of the dogs in the pedigree are on the smaller end of the standard, that would be just fine, but I'd have a bit of concern if many of the dogs were at the upper end of the standard.
 

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Yes there should be a breed standard because if there wasn't, the breed would porbably be alot worse.
 

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Of course no dog is perfect. Every dog has faults,
My thoughts exactly. I don't necessarily view a dog that is strong in many ways but 1/2" to tall as breeding out of the standard. The standard is more than just height and weight, and I personally don't think those aspects carry more priority than other aspects, such as temperament. No dog is perfect, so every dog is going to have at least one area where it is not perfectly to standard.
 

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You can breed two dogs that are of standard and might have a pup in the resulting litter that is not standard. Do you cull that puppy?
 

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Right. You wouldn't want to breed a bitch with an overbite to a male with an underbite, either... it just doesn't work that way. :)



I guess what I meant to say is, if my dog were too tall, I'd want a bitch whose bloodlines do not have a tendency to go oversize (or undersize), but right within the standard. If some of the dogs in the pedigree are on the smaller end of the standard, that would be just fine, but I'd have a bit of concern if many of the dogs were at the upper end of the standard.
I am trying to stay within the standard, but will not throw a dog out for only a little extra height, so long as the dog is balanced. If I breed that balanced dog to a balanced bitch who is within the standard (wherever she lands within it) I will feel ok. In my opinion, height is one up from color, so long as you are not trying to breed giants. Temperament, health, balance, and so much more are higher on my priority list. coat length, color, height within reason are not going to keep me awake nights.
 

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You can breed two dogs that are of standard and might have a pup in the resulting litter that is not standard. Do you cull that puppy?
Yupp, when they come out you can tell that they will be too large, too small, too angulated, a tooth missing, soft ears, and you can pop them right in the freezer.
 

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You can breed two dogs that are of standard and might have a pup in the resulting litter that is not standard. Do you cull that puppy?
Of course not. But instead of keeping it back to breed down the line (as a breeder), you place it in a wonderful loving home, wish it a long, healthy life, and re-assess your breeding dogs to see if you should continue breeding them if they keep producing out of standard dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You can breed two dogs that are of standard and might have a pup in the resulting litter that is not standard. Do you cull that puppy?
Just curious why you asked this question. I am not seeing the connection. Are you saying that is intentionally breeding outside the standard? Cause that is not what I meant to imply with the question. I am talking about people who intentionally breed to get traits that are outside the standard either physical or temperament.
 

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Lilie, I do not think decent breeders do much culling anymore. Perhaps they should, but most of us do not have the heart for it. But at age two, the only culling you do, is by not adding the dog to your breeding stock.

So yes, if you breed a 23.5 bitch to a 25.5 dog and you have a 29 inch pup, I would probably not breed that dog -- I see that is over-sized. Kind of embarrassing, really, but I would not kill it.

cull = kill
 

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