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I have never in my life selected dog based on color, nor will I now. However, I would really like to find a puppy from respected German show lines, with excellent temperament and health, and strong structure that happens to be black. I would consider a working line dog, too provided I see really nice structure and bit less hardness and drive than typical working line dogs. This may be the last GSD I own (I still have 5 at home) and I have some mobility issues. So wild and crazy doesn't interest me anymore. I am no longer a serious competitor in anything but tracking. I am not a Schutzhund competitor and do not have any interest in puppies that are encouraged to bite. I DO want a pup that is well socialized with other dogs or pack members and is hopefully with their litter and mom up to 8 weeks, has been naturally weaned by mom. I'd prefer to find a breeder that does the Dr. Jean Dodds vaccination protocol. I'd like to find a breeder that starts their puppies on raw food. I would also like to see OFA hips and elbows and DM testing. Hopefully CERF's on the parents too. I am not opposed to European breeders. I don't ask for much do I? Actually, these are all things I have done with my own litters. But, I will never have a black with my lines. I am also open to coats. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!
 

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Thanks, Sunflowers. I am not going to show the dog, I just happen to like the West German show line dogs for temperament and structure. I don't mind some DDR in the background. I've seen a few nice ones here and there, but they are hard to find. That's why I am asking the forum. My intended use for the dog will be competitive tracking and companionship.
 

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WGSL just don't come in black any more..

here are a couple of workingline dogs...

Father at 11ish....
Xito



son - Koug at 2 - 10 years ago this July..



2nd generation - Ikon as a puppy



These dogs [Xito and Koug - Ikon via a Xito daughter so not] go back in 'tail male' line to VA Marko Cellarland. I don't think there are any more black dogs who go back that way - my other male from this sire is gone, and I do have females 1st adn 2nd generation and hopefully this summer, third generation....This "look" is not easy to find in black working lines - there are some good looking black dogs out there....but I don't think they would fit your specifications for drive and temperament

Lee
 

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Thanks, Lee. I figured this wasn't going to be an easy search. I am not married to black. I have just always wanted a black as long as I can remember.

Two of my current dogs (brothers) are progeny from Kevin Murrtal. I just lost my Lasso v Neuen Berg son. He was a tracking machine! And I have a bitch that has Kevin on her maternal side, and Lasso on her paternal side. Love all of their temperaments.

Just starting my search for a new pup. I know it will take some time and a black might not be in the future.
 

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Whoops, sorry, I didn't look at your join date.
Getting too enthusiastic for my own good.:)

There is an interesting discussion on pedigree database about the dog's pedigree. Some were even ridiculing it. Looks as if that particular kennel was in Russia.
12V UA,12V RUS Vogerland Shaytan
 

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Not to worry, Sunflowers! I have had German dogs for 13 years now and shepherds for 20 years. I've done most of everything over the years - SAR, pet therapy, agility, obedience, detection, sheep herding, some Schutzhund, AKC and SV shows. What I find I enjoy the most is tracking and scent work. So, I am pretty narrowed in on what I enjoy and want to spend my time at, and what temperaments suit me.
 

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Why don't you go for a black DDR? It seems that it will suit you well. Less prey drive, high pack drive (good for companionship), great nose for scent work/tracking, stable temperament.
 

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There is Kris-T's German Shepherds that you can contact. I really like Capone a lot. Also, check Vom Schwartze-Hunden (Sister Kennel to Grunenfeld).


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Kris-T's is American show lines
 

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this is a round-about way to say you want a black dog. you can find
excellent temperament, excellent health and strong structure in
any color. people aren't compromising anything because they want
a certain color. now "stand up and say it loud you want a black dog
and be proud".

>>>>>I have never in my life selected dog based on color, nor will I now. However, I would really like to find a puppy from respected German show lines, with excellent temperament and health, and strong structure that happens to be black. <<<<<



I would consider a working line dog, too provided I see really nice structure and bit less hardness and drive than typical working line dogs. This may be the last GSD I own (I still have 5 at home) and I have some mobility issues. So wild and crazy doesn't interest me anymore. I am no longer a serious competitor in anything but tracking. I am not a Schutzhund competitor and do not have any interest in puppies that are encouraged to bite. I DO want a pup that is well socialized with other dogs or pack members and is hopefully with their litter and mom up to 8 weeks, has been naturally weaned by mom. I'd prefer to find a breeder that does the Dr. Jean Dodds vaccination protocol. I'd like to find a breeder that starts their puppies on raw food. I would also like to see OFA hips and elbows and DM testing. Hopefully CERF's on the parents too. I am not opposed to European breeders. I don't ask for much do I? Actually, these are all things I have done with my own litters. But, I will never have a black with my lines. I am also open to coats. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!
 

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There is a kennel in Russia or the Ukraine (or somewhere out that way) that does have a line of solid black show lines. Of course the black comes from working lines they've crossed out to but by now the dogs are basically a WGSL "type". Other than this I've never seen a black WGSL dog, only black working lines in the SV ring. American lines do have black (and all the colors).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I am not opposed to a working line dog with structure to the standard, and temperament that is a bit less prey drive and hardness than the typical working line dogs. I want an off switch. Of course, there maybe a litter out there with an individual that might meet that. I'd like work ethic, but not over the top drive that is hard to live with. I am not looking for a Schutzhund candidate. I do subscribe to form and function. Thank you again, everyone for your suggestions!
 

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all three of the black dogs I posted are/were house dogs their whole lives...Xito did not compete or train alot once here in the states, the second dog did train for years and is Sch3, WH, OB3, CD, CGC, but has always been a house dog, slept on the foot of my bed and used to go out riding with me and a couple of my other dogs...Ikon is now going on 4, and is also a house dog, nothing at all competitively done with him (unfortunately!)..I have a dark sable female from Ikons litter who also is a house pet with friends that I have done a good bit of training with - she goes to summer camp many weekends and has a group of children that play with her....Working lines do not all have over the top drive - mine have great drives, but also an off switch and are fine in the house.

Lee
 

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My dog, while insane for a while there (3-7 months) is great inside and calms down nicely. And she's very high drive. Keeping up nicely with the malinois in my club. It's not impossible to get a lower drive working line that settles in great as a house dog.


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I have a working line dog who is a house dog who I am not competing - though most of her littermates are training to do great things!!
 
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