Black? Sable?

6627 Views 10 Replies 10 Participants Last post by JakodaCD OA, Jul 19, 2008

Barb E

Discussion Starter · Jul 13, 2008

I pulled this off the pedigree data base, interested in the thoughts here.
I know that breeding blues and livers is a no-no, just curious on the "black" pup's coloring. Is it a dilution? Is she a sable?

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/204581.html

almost 4 mos old

Pup's page on breeder's website
http://www.loujuangsd.net/photo3_2.html

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pupresq

· #2 · Jul 13, 2008

That's an interesting one. So, looks like her dad is black and carries the gene for the blue dilution. Mom is sable. Still trying to figure out what colors mom is carrying... wish they had pics on their site!

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pupresq

· #3 · Jul 13, 2008

I can't find pictures of her grandparents on mom's side but with a name like "ebony" I'm going to assume her maternal grandmother was also black which would make her mom heterozygous - one allele for sable and one allele for black.

So... if I had to guess, I'd say the puppy in question is genetically black and that that "sable" coloration is actually something more like the tan legged bleed through you sometimes see in black GSDs (not to be confused with bicolor). I think if she'd gotten the sable allele from mom she'd be the normal dark sable that we see a lot.

I'm wondering if being a carrier for the blue factor would contribute to the bleed through or if the blue thing is just straight up recessive and you don't see it unless they're homozygous. I don't know enough about how the dilution factors work genetically to say. Chris will probably know though.

Neat looking dog but not what I'd call a "black sable."

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DancingCavy

· #4 · Jul 13, 2008

Not really sure what to guess with this pup. Though I have seen a bicolor pup with similar 'fading' around the neck despite being solid black there as a babe (and he's only 7 or 8 months old now).

My guess would be black, however, based on her appearence as a young pup. If she were sable, she'd probably appear 'grey' and then darker as she got older. But she's solid black as a youngster and seems to have faded as she aged.

The way she's faded, however, she reminds me a lot of my Mutt, Risa. Except Risa is sable.

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DianaM

· #5 · Jul 13, 2008

I saw that on the db. Absolutely flippin' gorgeous. Isn't there a member here who owns a dog that has that sort of color?

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JeanKBBMMMAAN

· #6 · Jul 13, 2008

Here's a thread on Anna: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=640634&page=1#Post640634

In that thread is a link to a dog in Belgium that has similar coloring to her.

Here is RLWolf's dog: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=615442&page=1#Post615442

Trend? Like black sables in general? (is that trendy-I think so-JMO!) Breeding for color-blah...luckily, at least, for most black sables they seem to be coming from dogs who are health and temperament tested for the most part.

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BlackGSD

· #7 · Jul 13, 2008

It is strange to me how some people call them a sable, yet there is at least one dog the exact same color that has NO sables in the first 6 generations. So OBVIOUSLY it is NOT a sable. (And the breeder of this dog does NOT call it a sable, as they know that it is genetically impossible.)

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Amaruq

· #8 · Jul 15, 2008

My first guess was a black with poor pigment.

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AbbyK9

· #9 · Jul 15, 2008

That's a very interesting color. I'm not sure what you would call it.

That breeder's page is ... let's just say "interesting" as well.

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geokon_2000

· #10 · Jul 19, 2008

The second picture of Bella could be a picture of my rescue boy. Identical color. I thought he was a black sable, but I noted no banding on the hairs.