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Theres so many different types of trainers out there. I feel like behavorist's prescribe meds where as a behavior modification trainer, gets to the root of the problem and changes the state of mind of the dog, fixing whatever issue there is.

The problem is, some people don't want to bring their dog to a trainer that can introduce the word 'no' and the concept of 'you are responsible for your actions, and the bad decisions you make have consequence'. So instead people bring their dog to a 'behaviorist' and get prescribed meds to "fix" (mask) the problem.

I know if my dog had behavior issues I sure as **** wouldn't be bringing them to a positive only (no such thing) trainer.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
A good trainer IS a behaviorist. A good trainer understands and reads the dog. A good trainer knows how to fix the issues of the individual dog.

IMO, "behaviorist" is just the newest word to make yuppies with unruly pugs feel special.
Lololol! @Jax08, My feelings exactly!
 

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You need to define what you mean by "behaviorist." It's an unregulated term. There's no nationally recognized credential like a CPDT, so idiots and charlatans abound.

When I use the term "behaviorist," I think of a board-certified veterinarian behaviorist. They can bring medical, neurological, hormonal, and other physical concerns into the evaluation of behavior. In addition to the DVM, they've done a residency in applied behavior and satisfied the demanding qualifications for board cert. There are only a few of them in the country. You can find them through the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists:
ACVB

For standard misbehavior, you don't need one. For OCD and related issues, I would want to work with one -- research just came out showing canine autism exists (!!!). The OCD stuff we sometimes discuss here (tail chasing, etc.) has some documented links to explosive rage in the study, and there's no longer a doubt it's neurological, not just "learned behavior." The researchers found what was going on in the brains of dogs' suffering from some forms of OCD closely paralleled autism in human children's brains -- it's a revolutionary finding. Those dogs need meds, though they're barely at the beginning of figuring out what helps. This is a new frontier in veterinary medicine -- the field is in its infancy.

One of the vet researchers was on NPR discussing his new book -- the interview was fascinating, and I literally sat in a parking lot of the grocery store listening to it instead of running my errands because I couldn't tear myself away:
https://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-08-22/the-new-science-of-animal-psychiatry
 

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Discussion Starter #9
You need to define what you mean by "behaviorist." It's an unregulated term. There's no nationally recognized credential like a CPDT, so idiots and charlatans abound.

When I use the term "behaviorist," I think of a board-certified veterinarian behaviorist. They can bring medical, neurological, hormonal, and other physical concerns into the evaluation of behavior. In addition to the DVM, they've done a residency in applied behavior and satisfied the demanding qualifications for board cert. There are only a few of them in the country. You can find them through the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists:
ACVB

For standard misbehavior, you don't need one. For OCD and related issues, I would want to work with one -- research just came out showing canine autism exists (!!!). The OCD stuff we sometimes discuss here (tail chasing, etc.) has some documented links to explosive rage in the study, and there's no longer a doubt it's neurological, not just "learned behavior." The researchers found what was going on in the brains of dogs' suffering from some forms of OCD closely paralleled autism in human children's brains -- it's a revolutionary finding. Those dogs need meds, though they're barely at the beginning of figuring out what helps. This is a new frontier in veterinary medicine -- the field is in its infancy.

One of the vet researchers was on NPR discussing his new book -- the interview was fascinating, and I literally sat in a parking lot of the grocery store listening to it instead of running my errands because I couldn't tear myself away:
https://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-08-22/the-new-science-of-animal-psychiatry
Fascinating!! Great info!
 

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You need to define what you mean by "behaviorist." It's an unregulated term. There's no nationally recognized credential like a CPDT, so idiots and charlatans abound.

When I use the term "behaviorist," I think of a board-certified veterinarian behaviorist. They can bring medical, neurological, hormonal, and other physical concerns into the evaluation of behavior. In addition to the DVM, they've done a residency in applied behavior and satisfied the demanding qualifications for board cert. There are only a few of them in the country. You can find them through the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists:
ACVB

For standard misbehavior, you don't need one. For OCD and related issues, I would want to work with one -- research just came out showing canine autism exists (!!!). The OCD stuff we sometimes discuss here (tail chasing, etc.) has some documented links to explosive rage in the study, and there's no longer a doubt it's neurological, not just "learned behavior." The researchers found what was going on in the brains of dogs' suffering from some forms of OCD closely paralleled autism in human children's brains -- it's a revolutionary finding. Those dogs need meds, though they're barely at the beginning of figuring out what helps. This is a new frontier in veterinary medicine -- the field is in its infancy.

One of the vet researchers was on NPR discussing his new book -- the interview was fascinating, and I literally sat in a parking lot of the grocery store listening to it instead of running my errands because I couldn't tear myself away:
https://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-08-22/the-new-science-of-animal-psychiatry
The behaviorist I went to was a board certified veterinarian behaviorist. She had me turn him loose, first thing at the first lesson, in a large obedience area where he promptly took a new paper towel roll (for potty clean up) and unrolled it in one big move all across the floor then ran to where the roll was and picked it up and ran around the room with it trailing behind him as a banner. She got that away from him and then he ran to where there was a big container of stuffed toys and he proceeded to take them out as fast as she was trying to get them back in. She finally had to put the toy container on shelving he could not reach after he got the container off a lower shelf after she first put it up. Then, he ran to a garbage can that had a "swing" closure on top and he stuck his head through the enclosure and didn't want to take his head out. (I figured there was food in there.) All within the first 10 minutes.....welcome to a 13 month-old GSD puppy .. . .

Believe me, I was never so glad to hook up with a Schutzhund Club!!!!
 

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Really I don't see the difference. Maybe some are more competition oriented, but aren't the best trainers are also behaviorists? They should be:wink2:
A trainer can teach you how to teach your dog commands. A behaviorist can fix problems created by the handler. A behaviorist is a trainer. A trainer may not understand behaviors or how to correct them (that person is not a good trainer, but a lot aren't very good).
 

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I caught some of the Diane Reems show. Very interesting.

I was especially struck by something the vet said about what un-natural lives we are giving dogs these days. He said that a lot of the issues dogs have are because they are never allowed to be dogs. Fascinating show, I'll try to find time to listen to the whole thing.

The behaviorist a pup-buyer took a dog too sounded like a total hack. The "behaviorist" used a spray bottle to correct the then 11 month old dog for barking, or jumping, or running amok or whatever she didn't like. The dog grabbed the spray bottle and destroyed it. The "behaviorist" concluded that this dog was a genetic throwback to the its wolf ancestors and a lost cause. Happy to report I found an appropriate home for this very stable, social, loving, wonderful dog, and he is thriving.

I think behaviorists can be a big scam- I mean I understand dogs can have mental health issues but I think many are too quick to Dx a mental health problem. Exercise, training, and understanding of a dog's needs are generally the way to a good dog-human relationship.
 

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The behaviorist a pup-buyer took a dog too sounded like a total hack. The "behaviorist" used a spray bottle to correct the then 11 month old dog for barking, or jumping, or running amok or whatever she didn't like. The dog grabbed the spray bottle and destroyed it. The "behaviorist" concluded that this dog was a genetic throwback to the its wolf ancestors and a lost cause.
:rofl:

I know that's not funny but sometimes the only defense is to laugh at the stupid.
 

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I agree with the post by Magwart. My boy has fear aggression issues. I tried everything, we went through a myriad of professional trainers, classes, schutzhund traning, etc... the problem just got worse and worse. My Vet recommended a Veterinary Behaviorist. We were lucky because there are so few Certified American College of Veterinary Behaviorists around. After working with her, we have had nothing but results. He is no longer people reactive, his dog reactivity is improving. He is being taught how to cope with his fears not to just supress them. Only sound scientific proven methods are being used, to feel good hocus pocus.
I would not paint all "professional" trainers with the same brush, neither should we with Veterinary Behaviorists.
 
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