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I have no reason to be here other than to try and help you. If I said anything wrong in your opinion I apologize. Again, I wish you the best of luck in all you do!

Signing off!
 

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OP, you seem to have a good attitude, even when people aren't being kind to you. I applaud you for trying to learn, finding a mentor, commiting to health clearances and titles. Is it as thorough and knowledgable as some people? Who knows, I am ot a breeder. Probably not since you aren't a breeder yet, either. But I see that you are trying.... I read posts every day on Facebook of people who just breed their dog because they and their neighbors like the dog so much.

I hope that the most experienced breeders out there are kind & willing to answer your questions and offer guidance without making you feel terrible when you make rookie mistakes (which it seems to me all rookies at anything are bound to make)

Good luck to you.
 

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OP, you seem to have a good attitude, even when people aren't being kind to you. I applaud you for trying to learn, finding a mentor, commiting to health clearances and titles. Is it as thorough and knowledgable as some people? Who knows, I am ot a breeder. Probably not since you aren't a breeder yet, either. But I see that you are trying.... I read posts every day on Facebook of people who just breed their dog because they and their neighbors like the dog so much.

I hope that the most experienced breeders out there are kind & willing to answer your questions and offer guidance without making you feel terrible when you make rookie mistakes (which it seems to me all rookies at anything are bound to make)

Good luck to you.
OP I applaud you for wanting to breed German Shepherds. I hope that you learn what you will need to know to be a professional quality breeder and you will share that information with the rest of us who have shared information with you.

Brutal honesty is not unkind in any way, it is the very best medicine for a common illness!
 

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Let's not start with the attacks and petty bickering between members. I've deleted one post so far.

So, Cubano - what has the training you have been doing so far thaught you about drives, and dogs? Because the goal of training and titling dogs is to learn about them and become better dog people along the way - the training isn't for the dogs' benefit, but ours.
I would love to hear the answer to this question! As it is THE question IMO! From that we can assist, without that we are shooting in the dark!
:wink2:
 

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Your mentor is retired and breeding dogs and has been doing this for 50 years or so. Without names, tell us a little about him. What lines does he focus on? What venues does he participate in? Has he gone with you to any shows, trials, seminars, club meetings?

If he has been doing this for 50 years, then he has a lot of contacts. He is not going to be doing this for another 50 years, so now is the time to get out and about with this guy and meet the people he is working with and learn from him some of the politics in your area. There are things a breeder can tell you that books can't, things about the people in your area. They can help you avoid some problem people and help you connect with people that can help you learn.

It sounds like you are farther along on the path to become a dog breeder than many who jump right in. Be careful not to put all your eggs in one basket.

Saying that, I am surprised that you are starting your program with bitches that seem to be from two different lines, GSL and WL, correct me if I am wrong. The reasons this can be problematic is that, for newbies, it is tough enough to study and learn the pedigrees (the dogs, what they produce, etc., who produces well with whom, and who to avoid), with just one line of dogs. And the two groups do not share fanciers, which means, while you can do IPO with both bitches, clubs, breeders, etc -- well two different groups of people. Some of them will totally discount you if you are breeding other lines, and breeding the lines together -- GSD world political suicide. This is important because you want to find the best stud dogs to complement your bitches, and if people peg you as a working line person or as a show line person, they might not want to do business with you.

And they're right in a way, because instead of focusing on one line, and learning what you can about those dogs, you are doing two and that's like a crash course on both. Breeding on a foundation of crash courses is kind of a train wreck. You need two mentors -- one for each line you are planning on breeding with.

First getting yourself established in one line, the venues that that line tends to favor, the people who follow that line, you can always branch out later on, usually for a purpose.

Keep learning. The breed needs people who are willing to learn and work hard.

To best help their customers, breeders need to learn as much as possible on the following:

Genetics and Bloodlines.
Health and diseases common in the breed
Nutrition
Whelping and Raising a litter
Behavior and Training
The GSD community in your area
Dog law and business

As a breeder, your puppy buyers will consult you on these things, and if you cannot help them out, then one of the main benefits of going the breeder route in getting their new companion is gone.

The good news is that there is a LOT of on the job training. Puppy buyers will bring up questions that stump you eleven years later. But, that is no reason not to put the effort in to learning as much as possible.

Good luck.
 

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how to be a breeder 101


just like a credentialed course , minimum 5 years prior experience of ownership


this is not a turn-key type of enterprise. I had more than a few wanting to get
a-bunch-of-dogs as a start up . yup- NOPE

go out and participate with your dog in any venue , and don't be ashamed to fail
there is more to be learned through failure - the dog wasn't quite good enough - find
out why --
the dog bumbled along in work - find out why - how did you fix it - did that reveal
deficiencies that you will first of all recognize, then avoid . Were the failures on your
part - not working the dog correctly - how will you change that . You develop a feel
for dogs.
You will have a hard time selling dogs to working people if you can't gain their confidence
in what you know in what you can do.
If your venue is show - same thing get out their and have your dog judged against others of the
same group - whether that be WGSL or ASL .


The reality is that the idea of a GSD is long gone.
The reality is that there are three distinct genetic drifts which haven't shared
a common ancestor for 40 (or more) years.


What is your idea of an ideal GSD . Show us a specimen from any era .


I just added a beautiful American bred GSD in the Good Conformation folder http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/175652-good-conformation-folder-5.html#post7896825


Have a look at it .
 

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how to be a breeder 101


just like a credentialed course , minimum 5 years prior experience of ownership


this is not a turn-key type of enterprise. I had more than a few wanting to get
a-bunch-of-dogs as a start up . yup- NOPE

go out and participate with your dog in any venue , and don't be ashamed to fail
there is more to be learned through failure - the dog wasn't quite good enough - find
out why --
the dog bumbled along in work - find out why - how did you fix it - did that reveal
deficiencies that you will first of all recognize, then avoid . Were the failures on your
part - not working the dog correctly - how will you change that . You develop a feel
for dogs.
You will have a hard time selling dogs to working people if you can't gain their confidence
in what you know in what you can do.
If your venue is show - same thing get out their and have your dog judged against others of the
same group - whether that be WGSL or ASL .


The reality is that the idea of a GSD is long gone.
The reality is that there are three distinct genetic drifts which haven't shared
a common ancestor for 40 (or more) years.


What is your idea of an ideal GSD . Show us a specimen from any era .


I just added a beautiful American bred GSD in the Good Conformation folder http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/175652-good-conformation-folder-5.html#post7896825


Have a look at it .
Carmen's right. You can't just read and research, you have to do. You have to become known in a venue by doing with your dog. And yes, we learn more from our failures than when things go like clockwork.
 

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Carmen's right. You can't just read and research, you have to do. You have to become known in a venue by doing with your dog. And yes, we learn more from our failures than when things go like clockwork.
I love serious dedicated GSD owners. Carmen if I could I would reach out and shake your hand. It hurts me to see what people are doing to the breed, it hurts me deep in my heart! The way the whole thread started was like a knife in my heart twisting and turning which led me to ask the question and make the statements I did. Which I was lhbclbhlb for doing because some were offended. TY Carmen for sharing this with the OP. TY for loving the breed... TY TY TY you also Slezer you get it and I'm so glad to see it.

I was so hoping the response to my question was
1.
2
3
4
5
6
7
But it wasn't and went down hill from there!
 

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Do you people really think that laughing at and ridiculing those who come here for information is the best way to educate future breeders? You do realize that people will go ahead with their plans anyway, even if you try to make them feel 3 inches tall, right? Why not respectfully impart your knowledge and wisdom, or gently lead them to sources of knowledge instead of being snarky and rude?

OP I commend your efforts to learn from a breeder and to health test and title your dogs. I suggest diversifying your experiences and learn from as many different sources and breeders as you can.

Our breed needs educated, serious, and dedicated breeders. They are all too rare among the backyard breeders who put their GSD with their neighbors' because they want to make some cash from the litter.

We need to encourage the next generation of people who want to improve the breed.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

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Do you people really think that laughing at and ridiculing those who come here for information is the best way to educate future breeders? You do realize that people will go ahead with their plans anyway, even if you try to make them feel 3 inches tall, right? Why not respectfully impart your knowledge and wisdom, or gently lead them to sources of knowledge instead of being snarky and rude?

OP I commend your efforts to learn from a breeder and to health test and title your dogs. I suggest diversifying your experiences and learn from as many different sources and breeders as you can.

Our breed needs educated, serious, and dedicated breeders. They are all too rare among the backyard breeders who put their GSD with their neighbors' because they want to make some cash from the litter.

We need to encourage the next generation of people who want to improve the breed.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Melissa, some kindly admistrators and moderators came onto this post weeks ago, and cleaned up some of the typical unhelpful attitudes that are going to happen when this topic comes up.

What is left, what you are commenting on, is about the most polite and informative answers one can hope for, and you are trying to smack us around? We that have posted have experience with what this guy wants, and are spending a lot of time and thought in giving him suggestions.

I can only believe that you are wanting to stir the pot because you have nothing better to do today.
 

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I apologize for the tone of my earlier post. I was having a bad morning, and took it out on an internet post where it appeared to me that someone who is legitimately trying to learn was being ridiculed. Again, I'm sorry for my earlier attitude. I am not a breeder, but have recently been through the arduous process of weeding out bad breeders to choose my current puppy, and would really like to see more people who care about the breed learn about breeding the right way.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

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Being student of the breed is very important.

"...Kennel blindness is a hard disease to cure..." quote by Ingrid strom in a interview to Indian kennel Gazette, is true for any breed and any prospective breeder.

Our breed is now split into two types, viz. Working and Show-line (within show line the the WGSL and American show lines are entirely different).

So one needs to be very clear in the head with his/her breeding goal.
 

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The best way to learn about this breed is to train SEVERAL dogs of different lines to titles....to study pedigrees of every dog you see that you can get your hands on.....to go to trials - local, regional, national - and study the dogs, the pedigrees and to talk to many breeders, and try to put together the info you gather to the dogs you see and pedigrees you study......

I don't think you can do this in a year.

It is great that you have the resources to put together an impressive facility. I wish I had that facility and the financial resources behind it :) :) :) Unfortunately, too many people mistake a fancy physical plant for quality and knowledge......see Carmen's post.....I seriously think it takes years to even start to recognize and understand what makes a good dog, and what risks are inherent in a breeding....two or three litters a year is NOT a "small" or a hobby breeder....that is 10 to 20 puppies to place responsibly in homes that are appropriate for each individual puppy.....another task that is NOT easy.....it also takes years and litters that produce dogs who get titled to start to attract customers who are educated in the breed and who want a puppy from YOU specifically.....


This will take alot more than a year if you want to "do it right" - breeding is much much more than building a facility....


Lee
 

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Of course if you wait until you have all the experience, set up, time, and have studied the breed and pedigrees until you are ready, then you will be too old to physically keep up with all the training and work involved. And, you will still be a novice because, you really can't read a book about some of this stuff and be an expert. It takes hands-on experience. You have to get your feet wet, prove to some people that you are serious, before you can even get the information that you will find you need.

I agree with training dogs and working with dogs of different lines. And certainly, as a breeder you have to become somewhat an expert on training and behavior. And, yes it doesn't happen overnight. But when you are done learning, you might as well throw in the towel on breeding as well.

Breeding is constant improvement. Breeders have to suck up knowledge about their dogs, the breed, other dogs, like sponges. They have to try new things, and learn from them. Yes it is good to begin with a solid foundation. But with anything, the more you learn, the more you learn you need to know.
 

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If you want to learn and put in the effort, it won't take a lifetime. Problem is most people are lazy and want to just start making puppies. Spend the time. The breed will be better off in the long run.
 

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My advise is to find a great breeder to take you under their wing.

When I started bird breeding I found it very hard to find anyone to really teach me or even talk to me about it. Everyone wanted to keep things a secrete. I was lucky enough to find someone who shared everything with me nutrition, what really to look out for. There where hours upon hours of teaching. Honestly more like years of learning. She actually became my very best friend. She died today. We where very good friends of over 10 years.

She used to be a pet store owner in a small town and she learned quite a bit from the vet that was nearby. People that are in it for the money you do not even want to speak to them. They will more likely take shortcuts trying to make a buck instead of trying to do what is best for the breed and overall health of not only your breeders but your babies as well.

I know nothing of breeding dogs. I do know the extreme about of hours I spent doing things the right way. Not the cost efficient way. I have even spent quite a bit of money on books that Avian vets use. Good books are rarely cheap and hard to get especially with birds.

Not to mention the equipment that was needed and the willingness to get up and feed a baby bird every hour on the hour when first born when a new set of bird parents didn't seem to be feeding their babies. Staying up till 2 or 3 in the morning dealing with an egg bound breeder searching all over the internet for a good video to show how to do it right because my dear friend was in another state.
It takes 3 generations to breed out nutritionally caused diseases so you have to start with the healthiest and keep them that way.

No matter how long or how much you think you have learned there are so many variables that go on when things can, will, and do go wrong. It is not an idea to take on lightly it will consume your life more than a full time job sometimes for months. Which means you can't be free to go off to see someone or take a vacation if things are needed during that time. You have to have someone besides just you that you can count on if you get sick or just need to go out once and a while. That person for me was my daughter. I would trust her with any bird I had hand-feeding and that is saying something because you can easily kill them if you send their food down the wrong pipe. One of them is for air and one to the crop. And guess what talk to enough breeders and you will find that sometimes their pipes are opposite and if you do not go slow at the beginning so you can see which way it is going down you could end up killing the baby.

YEA YEA birds not dogs. My belief was if I was going to breed them I was going to do it right. Fresh veggies, apple-cider vinegar in their water everyday just to name a few. The passion and energy you will spend if you love them and want to do right by them take what you think it will take and multiply it a few times. There is a lot to things and some you have to learn as you go. Trust your gut when you are not sure. Because no one seems to have an emergency during the day always in the middle of the night when you are all alone trying to save a life.

The more people that will open up and show you what and how's they do will help you learn what to try and what to stay away from.

Just really think about it in ten years how old and what part of life will you be in? Because it takes time getting a great reputation just to find yourself in a different phase of life where you might need to quit when you are just getting going.

Now if after thinking about this you are still considering it I would really check into learning about feeding them the raw diet. That I know nothing of.
 

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OP: If you are thinking of becoming a show line breeder. Read the
The German Shepherd Dog - Welcome to my Website - The German Shepherd Dog articles from
Louis is an SV judge and a great ambassador of the breed. He has explained the engineering of the anatomy of a gsd.

Read and read his articles again and again and train your eyes on the all the show dogs you can come across.

For a show line breeder anatomy is the most important objective.

However, if you want to go for working line breeding there is no way other than enrolling for a dog trainer's program. Then you need an experienced mentor.
 

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My advise is to find a great breeder to take you under their wing.

When I started bird breeding I found it very hard to find anyone to really teach me or even talk to me about it. Everyone wanted to keep things a secrete. I was lucky enough to find someone who shared everything with me nutrition, what really to look out for. There where hours upon hours of teaching. Honestly more like years of learning. She actually became my very best friend. She died today. We where very good friends of over 10 years.

She used to be a pet store owner in a small town and she learned quite a bit from the vet that was nearby. People that are in it for the money you do not even want to speak to them. They will more likely take shortcuts trying to make a buck instead of trying to do what is best for the breed and overall health of not only your breeders but your babies as well.

I know nothing of breeding dogs. I do know the extreme about of hours I spent doing things the right way. Not the cost efficient way. I have even spent quite a bit of money on books that Avian vets use. Good books are rarely cheap and hard to get especially with birds.

Not to mention the equipment that was needed and the willingness to get up and feed a baby bird every hour on the hour when first born when a new set of bird parents didn't seem to be feeding their babies. Staying up till 2 or 3 in the morning dealing with an egg bound breeder searching all over the internet for a good video to show how to do it right because my dear friend was in another state.
It takes 3 generations to breed out nutritionally caused diseases so you have to start with the healthiest and keep them that way.

No matter how long or how much you think you have learned there are so many variables that go on when things can, will, and do go wrong. It is not an idea to take on lightly it will consume your life more than a full time job sometimes for months. Which means you can't be free to go off to see someone or take a vacation if things are needed during that time. You have to have someone besides just you that you can count on if you get sick or just need to go out once and a while. That person for me was my daughter. I would trust her with any bird I had hand-feeding and that is saying something because you can easily kill them if you send their food down the wrong pipe. One of them is for air and one to the crop. And guess what talk to enough breeders and you will find that sometimes their pipes are opposite and if you do not go slow at the beginning so you can see which way it is going down you could end up killing the baby.

YEA YEA birds not dogs. My belief was if I was going to breed them I was going to do it right. Fresh veggies, apple-cider vinegar in their water everyday just to name a few. The passion and energy you will spend if you love them and want to do right by them take what you think it will take and multiply it a few times. There is a lot to things and some you have to learn as you go. Trust your gut when you are not sure. Because no one seems to have an emergency during the day always in the middle of the night when you are all alone trying to save a life.

The more people that will open up and show you what and how's they do will help you learn what to try and what to stay away from.

Just really think about it in ten years how old and what part of life will you be in? Because it takes time getting a great reputation just to find yourself in a different phase of life where you might need to quit when you are just getting going.

Now if after thinking about this you are still considering it I would really check into learning about feeding them the raw diet. That I know nothing of.
What type of birds were you breeding?
 

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When I wanted to be an obedience instructor and to teach herding, because I had done it with my dogs and loved, I became an apprentice. Old fashioned word, but it is what it is. When I got into the dog show scene, I found several people to help me. First and foremost, you have to be open about wanting to do it the right way and open to listening and following what they tell you. My openness to doing it the right way had people putting their dogs up on tables and going over them, showing me what was correct and what needed to be improved, etc.. Having a great facility is nice, but you'll find most keep their dogs in their house, their pets, not just something for breeding. Some get the point where they need the facility, it's then gone beyond the hobby sport and into a business. But the good ones are still out there training and competing. They don't get to this point in time until they have proven themselves and have a track record of doing a very good job in what they do. Basically, you're putting the cart before the horse. I'd suggest to slow down, live with your dogs, train your dogs, don't worry about breeding and a facility yet. If you work and train and gain the respect of the others working in the field with you when it's time to breed they'll help you. Eventually, if you do it right, you'll need that facility, but now is not the time. JMHO
 
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