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As some of you may have heard, the FCI now recognizes the Berger Blanc Suisse as a distinct breed of dog. The FCI also recognizes the German Shepherd Dog.

The AKC and GSDCA have said that Berger Blanc Suisse coming into the US will be registered with the AKC as German Shepherd Dogs. (the AKC does not recognize the Berger Blanc Suisse) This has already been done, although it's only been a few dogs at this point. (this have been verified and acknowledged by the AKC)

The justification for doing this is that the Berger Blanc Suisse shares a common ancestry and DNA with the German Shepherd Dog. While this is true, the FCI considers the two breeds to be distinct and different and they have different standards. The AKC has said that the dogs are German Shepherds going by another name.

Do any of you have an opinion on this?

I believe it's wrong for several reasons but was interested in hearing how GSDCA members and other GSD owners feel about it.

Do you believe that importing Berger Blanc Suisse and adding them to the GSD gene pool will help to advance or improve the breed?

Do you believe it will have negative impact?

Do you believe that the GSDCA has the breeds best interest at hand when it supports the importation and registration of what could be hundreds if not thousands of dogs over time, when these dogs carry a disqaulifying fault?

Thanks in advance for your responses.
 

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Good Lord help us. The Berger Blanc Suisse has it's own Gene Poll, they may have originated from the GSD but they have worked and fought hard to gain FCI recognition and have their own standard now. To make them GSD's will only ruin what all those people have worked for.

I don't get the AKC. The FCI does one thing, the AKC does the exact opposite...
 

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This is why the AKC is not an official member of the FCI. They have always done their own thing.

Of course the people importing these dogs are allowing the AKC to make this decision. They need to fight to have the breed recognized for what it is and not just accept what AKC is doing. They have a choice. Does the UKC recognize the BBS? Many breeds have gone that route until they were able to get AKC recognition for their breeds.
 

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I know the AKC's biggest issue with it is that two brown GSDs can have a white puppy and then what would you register that dog as? I'm not sure as to the particular differences between the breeds, but from a novice perspective its pretty hard to tell the difference between a white shepherd and a BBS.
 

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I don't think it will have any impact on the GSD breed in general.

Most folks won't breed to them anyway. (Except for those that breed white GSDs.)

I agree with Lisa.
 

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This is MY understanding of the situation. The BBS was created from white GSDs imported to Switzerland from the US and Canada. After 20 generations without further importation of dogs from outside of Switzerland, the BBS was born. Here in the USA, white is still considered a disqualification (since the 1960's). To allow the seperation of dogs from the GSD gene pool based on a disqualifying fault is not good. There will still be colored dogs carrying the white factor and so there will still be white GSD's born. Can white GSDs from here be imported to Switzerland and registered as BBSs?
 

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It doesn't matter if they were or weren't. The white GSD was not accepted since it was a fault and some people have fought hard and long to get them the recognition they wanted.

The American GSD originated with the German as well and yet they are so far away from what the GSD should be that some call for a split.

Let them have their own Breed Standard. Let them have the recognition they deserve and please DON'T mix them with the GSD over here...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This isn't about the white coated GSD's in the AKC leaving the breed although I support that happening. It's about the bizarre things that happen in the dog world.

The BBS fought long and hard to create a new breed. They didn't do this so the AKC could turn the dogs back into GSD's.
This is a different breed, different structure, different temperament and they only come in white. They aren't GSD's.

I think the AKC needs to explain why this was done instead of turning down the registration and I'd like the GSDCA explain if this was something the AKC did before contacting the GSDCA, or after it was done. (in other words, who made the decision to turn BBS into GSD's, the AKC or the GSDCA?)

Here's part of the BBS standard, does this sound like a GSD to any of you?
UTILIZATION: Companion and family dog.


CHARACTER: Lively and balanced temperament, enjoys action, attentive with good ability to be trained. Friendly and discreet. High social competence and devoted to his owner. Never afraid or aggressive without provocation. A joyful and easy to teach working and sporting dog with capability for all round education. High social competence allows for a marked ability to adapt and integrate to all kinds of social events and situations.

Aggressive and overly shy is considered a disqualifying fault.
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If the breed of a dog was determined soley on the basis of it's DNA and ancestry, the FCI wouldn't have approved the BBS as a new and distinct breed.
On the same note, if this was the only criteria for determining the breed of a dog the SV would have white dogs. The SV doesn't say white is just a fault, they say the color does NOT exist in the breed. So much for DNA and ancestry.

Of course the people importing these dogs are allowing the AKC to make this decision. They need to fight to have the breed recognized for what it is and not just accept what AKC is doing. They have a choice. Does the UKC recognize the BBS? Many breeds have gone that route until they were able to get AKC recognition for their breeds.
You're right and I don't know what their reason was for doing it.
I'm sure the AKC has been approached about accepting the BBS. I know we'd like to import one but won't do it until the UKC or AKC accepts the breed. Right now the UKC accepts the White Shepherd but not the BBS. I'm guessing they'll be quicker to accept the BBS than the AKC.
 

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I really don't have an opinion in this matter. I was just asking a question.
You can't go off what they originated from. How many breeds have orginated from another breed?

The BBS is no longer a German Shepherd. It may have originated from the GSD but it's no longer a GSD, it's the berger blanc suisse and I'm glad they finally got the recognition they deserve.
 

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Breeds originating from other breeds is different, IMO. They ORIGIONATED from a different breed/breedS, but then had OTHER breeds mixed in to create something different.

To ME, breeding white GSDs to eachother for generations, STILL makes them white GSDs. The same as if I started breeding only black GSDs to eachother for 20 generations. They would STILL be black GSDs no mater what I chose to call them. UNLESS I crossed them with something else.

You don't just bring a breed from a foreign country and get immediate AKC recognition. There are all kinds of hoops that have to be jumped thru, and requirements that haves to be met. Have the BBS people looked into going about it this way?? {I would think so.}
 

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Does the UKC recognize the BBS? Many breeds have gone that route until they were able to get AKC recognition for their breeds.
The UKC recognizes the White Shepherd (WS). They are often quite popular at shows, probably because the AKC does not recognize them as a breed and DQs them as a white GSD. I have seen many of them at shows, in fact, I saw one WIN best in show at a UKC Premier. I'm not sure if the WS is the same as the BBS. WS is on one hand a white GSD but on the other hand when you see enough of them you can see they have developed their own type.

United Kennel Club: White Shepherd (Revised October 1, 2008)

ETA: Here is that BIS winner
 

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I don't have a dog in this fight. I think they are white GSDs. They cannot be shown in conformation in AKC, but they can be registered.
 

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Irish setters used to be red and white dogs. Over time, breeders selected for more red and we ended up with the Irish setter of today. A dedicated breeder saved the original Irish setter from extinction and we know it today as the Irish red and white setter. They are separate breeds on paper, but not too long ago they were one breed.

American cocker spaniels and English cocker spaniels used to be one breed- the cocker spaniel. The breed began to differentiate based on size and in the same litter one could have the small type and one could have the large type. In time, differing cultures and practices have separated the breeds into what we see today, one type almost exclusively a show/pet dog and the other type still possessing a very capable hunting line.

The AKC treats the Belgian shepherd types as three (should be four) different breeds. I do not think they would recognize a Malinois x Laekenois litter as pure. They don't even currently recognize the Laekenois. But at one time, you could find all four in the same litter. The Malinois was the short coat, the Tervuren the long coat, the Groenendael the black, and the Laekenois the curly.

I say bring on the Berger Blanc Suisse. I also say nuts to the AKC and the FCI should throw the AKC out on its snobby nose but hey that's just what I think of anyone who believes they're too special to follow the rules. ;)
 

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I see it as a White German Shepherd. There isn't really anything different between the GSD and the BBS except for coat color, in my opinion. These dogs are JUST white GSDs. (It's like I took sable GSDs and made a new dog breed... Just sable GSDs.)
 

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Very interesting topic and one I have thought about many times, I think my opinion might have teetered back and forth before, but I've never been on either end of the spectrum.

Inherently I think it is counter productive (there is a better word I'm looking for, but can't think of it right now) and both confuses the general public, and muddles the perceived intentions of the groups divided on the subject of BBS and white German Shepherd Dogs. I know of many breeders who wish for all white coated GSDs and BBS to be recognized as German Shepherds, but still they will breed to a dog registered as a Berger Blanc Suisse. On a similar note, there are others who work with BBS and see them as a completely separate breed, but they will register with the AKC as a German Shepherd.

The UKC recognizes both the white color in the German Shepherd breed, and the White Shepherd as a separate breed. So you will see white coated dogs of similar type with overlapping pedigrees, even among the first few generations. Whiteshepherds, are the Berger Blanc Suisse separate from White Shepherds? Or is it akin to American lines vs. European lines? Something interesting I have noticed is that I see many more long coated dogs among the registered BBS compared to the dogs registered as White Shepherds here in North America. Not sure if that is just pure coincidence or not.

Off topic, by the way, but wanted to say your long coated girl looks beautiful in your avatar!! Do not see pictures of her often enough.
 
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