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Discussion Starter #1
One of the girls I train with is having some problems with the Bark and Hold, her dog just doesn't bark, ever. At times, there's a strange gargling sound escaping but that's about it. We've tried a lot at training and have worked up to this gargle from complete silence.

Any ideas on how to work on this at home between club days?


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What type collar/harness is used and do you work on a table or platform? If the neck is restricted that may cause a problem/inhibiting the barking.

You really can't work on this from home, IMO
The helper should be working the dog correctly(in prey) and rewarding the bark to encourage it.
I know showing video isn't something your friend will do, but without seeing the dog being worked, we have no info on what's going on....
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Leather harness, no table or platform.

Inca (the dog) is being rewarded right now for anything that resembles a bark but hasn't progressed into a full bark.

I know she's open to getting help/ a fresh set of eyes on things, I'll ask her about getting a video.






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Does the dog bark out of frustration for a toy when backtied(on a harness) at home? That may trigger and carry over into the protection. That is the only thing I'd do at home.
 

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how old is the dog, i was ready to take my dog for a vet check cos i never heard him bark untill he was 9mo and even then he was a quiet dog then at 18mo he found his voice and now won't shut up.

i also seen shuts decoys whipping a dog into a frenzy in the blinds twirling a tug or ball around on a string above their head.

another trick is to have yr dog on the other side of a fence at tease it with treats/ball and soon as it frustration barks or any noise then reward it, even if you have to walk away from it on the other side of the fence a bit and run back and treat if it barks.
 

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if yr referring to my post i DID NOT mean whip stimulation i meant whipping metaphorically as in amping up/building frenzied drive.
 

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I thought that was what you meant but one cannot be 100% online. I agree that may be an option.

Ill pass your other idea along as well. Building frustration by other means may just be the solution before putting it together on the field with the sleeve.

Thanks both of you for the suggestions.


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forgetting the field for awhile a lot of interactions around the home will reinforce the idea, eg i can get my not so vocal dogs now to bark for food treats, kind of a fun game. beware most trainers hate it and they think it is total rudeness and a spoilt dog that pushes the owner for a treat by barking, alpha pack status and all. if it is on command eventually i don't see how it is a rude dog dominating it's owner, but i am no alpha leader so....

please consider that dogs get vocal at different ages and be careful what you ask for.
 

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Without seeing the training it is hard to say for certain, but I would venture to say that you have the dog "locked" in prey. It can be very difficult for some dogs to bark when they are thinking about biting.

I would lean in the opposite direction of what has been suggested thus far. Good barking comes from aggression.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
please consider that dogs get vocal at different ages and be careful what you ask for.
Haha it's not my dog, I have no issues with mine barking, she definitely has found her voice. She has three others that are quite vocal is just struggling with this one and her quiet-factor.



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Good barking comes from aggression.
I agree totally.
It does, but if the dog won't bark period, getting some frustration barks rewarded thru prey will trigger the vocalization...then you move to the aggressive mode. Pushing w/ defense may shut it down depending on the dog/maturity level. I assumed this was a fairly young dog.
 

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She has three others that are quite vocal is just struggling with this one and her quiet-factor.


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one thing i did learn when i bought my gsd home as a pup with an established adult dog in the home is that if the pup alerted on something then the older dog would take over barking duties and the pup would defer to it and shut up. maybe this is the case in the 3 dog pack???

at least as a learned unintended behaviour, the dog may need to build confidence to step out of the shadows so to speak? just another theory.
 

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Possibly, I should probably mention its not a GSD.

There's a 3 year old male Dobe and a year old Giant Schnauzer, dog in question is also a Giant....not that I'd think it'd make too much of a difference.

They've been doing the frustration method at training and its causing her to shut down. She's got all of the other aspects down, just the bark and hold that's holding her back.


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Without seeing the training it is hard to say for certain, but I would venture to say that you have the dog "locked" in prey. It can be very difficult for some dogs to bark when they are thinking about biting.

I would lean in the opposite direction of what has been suggested thus far. Good barking comes from aggression.

:thumbup: I think a lot of people can't tell when a dog gets "prey locked".


OP, it can be done at home with something the dog really wants. The dog does not have to be back tied to accomplish this. With one of my dogs I did it with string cheese. That's what she wanted the most. It gave her the idea that when I tell her too, she barks. It carried over to protection with the right decoy.
 

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Possibly, I should probably mention its not a GSD.

There's a 3 year old male Dobe and a year old Giant Schnauzer, dog in question is also a Giant....not that I'd think it'd make too much of a difference.

They've been doing the frustration method at training and its causing her to shut down. She's got all of the other aspects down, just the bark and hold that's holding her back.


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OH!!! Dobes work completely different! With a dobe I go the suspicion route. Working them in full prey has never worked for me.
 

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Some dogs are just not going to bark. If the dog can otherwise pass the trial, I think the owner should accept the dog the way it is and move on. Here is a dog that passed an IPO3 and does not bark at all during the entire trial;

 

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They've been doing the frustration method at training and its causing her to shut down. She's got all of the other aspects down, just the bark and hold that's holding her back.


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haha, not sure exactly how it goes but there is some trusim getting around that if a dog is having a specific narrow problem the more you focus on it the more you reinforce the problem and the dog can't see anything else.

in those cases forgetting about it for awhile and work on something completley different for a time seems to do the trick - again another theory.
 
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