[Maryn]

We had a couple of places to go today...visiting friends and family...so we brought Reich for the socialization.

As I'm getting her to the car on lead this tiny toy breed mutt from across the street comes charging right over. I didn't see or hear it until it was right there. Snarling, barking, trying to bite her. Caught us both totally off guard so much that she actually poo'd a little. She's trying to back under the car, I'm trying to hold the lead and kick the little dog who did not seem to want to leave without drawing blood.
The little girl from the house ran over and grabbed the thing.

I didn't baby her about it, I simply grabbed her and got in the car.

Now she has been great meeting new dogs, a bunch at the vet, my dogs, she's even cool with cats so far.

Well, she did great at my friend's house. Played with her 1 1/2 yr old daughter, everyone fawned over her.

Then we go to my dad's. He has a Puggle -pug beagle mix-, spayed female. Roxy is a cool little dog (2 yrs old about 23lbs to Reich's 27), has met my other dogs and just likes to play.

I had them both out in the back yard and Reich was throwing signs that she wanted nothing to do with Roxy. I took her in and sat with her on the couch. Roxy came running up trying to sniff and get her to play. Well, she got too close to Reich's face....and got a muzzle full of furious puppy teeth. It wasn't playful, it wasn't half hearted.

That was the end of that. I took Reich outside until we left.

Now...I am chalking this up to the bad experience she had a few hours earlier.
My line of thinking is to innundate her with good experiences with friendly dogs.
Should I muzzle her and get her to dog parks, petco, around friend's dogs, etc.?

Just looking for opinions here. I may want to show her, do schutzhund, etc. I do NOT want her exhibiting dog aggression. It will not be taken well when she's full grown.
I'd like to go punt the little sh!t dog, and give an earful to her owner...but my main focus right now is making sure she is ok and see if we can get past this.

Advice..thoughts?

 

[EJQ]

You mentioned that Reich weighs 27 pounds and you made reference to "a muzzle full of furious<u> puppy</u> teeth". Would you tell what Reich's age is.

 

[Cooper&me]

Don't ake her to dog parks, especially at a young age. Why muzzle her? she just told the other dog to leave her alone. I just think you are jumping the gun with the muzzle. She had a stressful day and was done. No harm no fowl.

 

[Maryn]

Originally Posted By: EJQYou mentioned that Reich weighs 27 pounds and you made reference to "a muzzle full of furious<u> puppy</u> teeth". Would you tell what Reich's age is.

She's 9 weeks old.

And mjb, the muzzle was something that popped into my head to possibly avoid a bad situation. A dog trying to initiate play, and her snapping at it as she did today...then that dog biting back..etc.

The whole deal has me a bit tweaked out. Think I'll take this evening and tomorrow to think on it.

 

[BowWowMeow]

The behaviors she exhibited in both cases sound like fear to me. She's just a baby and everything is new to her. Don't let this one experience ruin things for her or YOU with other dogs. At her age this should be relatively easy to fix, especially since you have access to some nice dogs her size (like the puggle). Please be aware that your body language and actions (tensing your face, feeling nervous or stressed), tightening up on the leash, picking her up, etc., reaffirm her fear. You want to work on your reactions so that you are confident and positive whenever both of you are around other dogs.

You want to start conditioning her to feel confident and positive when she sees other dogs. The first thing you can do is to fill up a bag with really yummy treats (like hot dogs or cheese). Make sure she knows you have them and when she does something like sits or looks at you, she gets one. Then slowly reintroduce her to the puggle. Start with the puggle off in in the distance (on a leash) so that she isn't a threat to your dog. When she notices the puggle, give her verbal positive reinforcement and a treat. If you can get a sit, all the better. Slowly move closer, treating all the way. You can do this on opposite sides of the street on the sidewalk, if you want. If she gets anxious and starts to snarl or bark then you've gotten too close. Depending on her temperament you may need to do this over a week long period until you are able to have the dogs walking nicely next to one another. Once you're there and she's comfortable then you should be able to have them sharing space in a yard, etc.

I'll just add that when I adopted Rafi he was great with other dogs but shortly after I got him several big dogs picked on him. Then he started doing counter defensive posturing and barking with bigger dogs. I have been working on that with him and he's doing much better. I am also working really hard to remember how I'm holding his leash, feeling, etc. When we have a bad encounter now he does not transfer it to the next dog.

 

[WiscTiger]

That was a long day for a 9 week old pup. I would say more stress, tired out than fear.

 

[Maryn]

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowThe behaviors she exhibited in both cases sound like fear to me. She's just a baby and everything is new to her. Don't let this one experience ruin things for her or YOU with other dogs. At her age this should be relatively easy to fix, especially since you have access to some nice dogs her size (like the puggle). Please be aware that your body language and actions (tensing your face, feeling nervous or stressed), tightening up on the leash, picking her up, etc., reaffirm her fear. You want to work on your reactions so that you are confident and positive whenever both of you are around other dogs.

You want to start conditioning her to feel confident and positive when she sees other dogs. The first thing you can do is to fill up a bag with really yummy treats (like hot dogs or cheese). Make sure she knows you have them and when she does something like sits or looks at you, she gets one. Then slowly reintroduce her to the puggle. Start with the puggle off in in the distance (on a leash) so that she isn't a threat to your dog. When she notices the puggle, give her verbal positive reinforcement and a treat. If you can get a sit, all the better. Slowly move closer, treating all the way. You can do this on opposite sides of the street on the sidewalk, if you want. If she gets anxious and starts to snarl or bark then you've gotten too close. Depending on her temperament you may need to do this over a week long period until you are able to have the dogs walking nicely next to one another. Once you're there and she's comfortable then you should be able to have them sharing space in a yard, etc.

I'll just add that when I adopted Rafi he was great with other dogs but shortly after I got him several big dogs picked on him. Then he started doing counter defensive posturing and barking with bigger dogs. I have been working on that with him and he's doing much better. I am also working really hard to remember how I'm holding his leash, feeling, etc. When we have a bad encounter now he does not transfer it to the next dog.

Yes, I agree it was fear both times. ****, the little ferocious dog scared me at first LOL
I didn't react as well as I should have. I tried to keep my right mind with the situation, but I don't know if this dog is UTD on shots, I didn't want it damaging her ears or really getting a hold of her anywhere. So there I was, trying to boot it away. After it was gone I gave Reich a quick and normal/commanding toned 'come on.'

With the puggle, I tried to make sure I stayed a non issue. No tension on the leash, no petting, talking or really doing anything while Roxy tried to introduce herself and initiate play. (except a GOOD GIRL! The few times she let her sniff without growling or grumbling) And because I know Roxy is very dog frienly I wasn't very concerned or nervous. I wanted to be sure I didn't -even inadvertantly- give her the idea that reacting in fear was OK. I just watched their body language calmly. My girl was not into it, at all. Roxy started doing big running circles, trying to engage her. At that point Reich started to raise her fur and lunge when the opportunity came around. I gave a tug, a firm 'No.', and walked her back into the house.

Roxy can be a bit overbearing, which is why I chose to have Reich on the couch with me.

The whole thing had me really p!ssed today. Reich is not a 'problem free' pup to begin with. (None really are...but she's a bit different lol) I am still gaining her trust, she is still learning what people are all about -as well as houses, cars, noises, cats, kids...everything basically-. She missed out on alot of things pups should experience their first 8 weeks of life. She's really been thrown into a whole new world this week. A big negative experience was not was I would have liked.
Then reading on puppy development stages/phases -fear imprinting 8-11 wks- had me concerned this is the type of thing that is going to stick with her and be a real issue.

Thank you so much for the advice and breakdown of what you'd do. It is very helpful. Worry can blow things out of proportion in your mind, especially if there's a bit of anger involved

On the plus side, the more I need to work with her on things, the more we get to bond. That's never a bad thing

 

[Maryn]

Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerThat was a long day for a 9 week old pup. I would say more stress, tired out than fear.

Good point.
We were gone about 3 1/2 hours....1 hr of which was car time.

 

[WiscTiger]

Wow that is a lot of stress for a 9 week old pup. Mine couldn't do a puppy class without not wanting to fall asleep about 45 mins into the 55 min. class. Stressing a pup is good, but you have to not over stress them at this age. I still don't think the reactions are fear as much as an over loaded system.

 

[BowWowMeow]

Without being in the situation I think it's impossible to know what she was exhibiting. But I still think there are good things to learn from your own reactions.

Hopefully you can take her to play with a dog that she likes tomorrow and all will be fine.

I did want to say that when Rafi had the bad experiences I didn't know him that well and he didn't know me that well. Today we had a lot of not great encounters with other dogs and a few days we were "greeted" by two stray dogs in the dark. In all cases I took control of the situation immediately and made myself a very strong alpha dog--with my voice and posture. The other dogs immediately backed off and Rafi continued on like nothing had happened.

That's one thing to keep in mind with your dog--if you are in control of the world then that's one less thing for her to worry about.

 

[wolfstraum]

I advise getting into a puppy OB class with a GOOD trainer. What part of Pittsburgh do you live in??? Many times you can work more on socialization than OB in these classes...I know of two places that would be good, and 2 that would NOT be good...

PM me if you like

Lee

 

[EJQ]

I scanned through most of the responses to your post. Lots of solid advice and opinion. This is a baby and indeed you need to get to a trainer that can teach how to start a puppy in the proper manner. Good Luck!

 

[Maryn]

Originally Posted By: WolfstraumI advise getting into a puppy OB class with a GOOD trainer. What part of Pittsburgh do you live in??? Many times you can work more on socialization than OB in these classes...I know of two places that would be good, and 2 that would NOT be good...

PM me if you like

Lee

You're over your PM limit LOL
Here's what I was sending you-

Hi Lee, thanks for your reply. I live in Etna, in between downtown and the northern suburbs.
I have actually been looking at Barb Levenson in Penn Hills/Oakmont. Any input on her or her program(s)? Or any others you'd recommend.

As soon as Reich is well enough up on her shots I do plan to get on the puppy classes bandwagon.

Her temperament and general disposition is very important to me as I have been talking to a local Sch. club about getting her into training. We will be going the first saturday in March to observe and have her tested. She's very smart and has a good prey drive, she's going to need a 'job', and I am looking forward to spending the time training and bonding with her.

Any input would be much appreciated!
Thank you,
Maryn