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When my parents got Molly, they got papers saying saying she was checked out by a vet when she was born and had the proper care when her mom had her and brothers & sisters, saying they were healthy and had no diseases and that neither of the parents did.
That's a health certificate, and yes by law any dog needs to be sold with one (at least here in FLorida, I assume all states). The health cert only says that the puppy received the proper legal vaccinations, had a fecal, was wormed, and seems to be free of communicable diseases. They will do a physical where they check for heart murmers and obvious physical defects like undescended testicles or unbilical hernias. These things are usually noted on the health cert, to ensure that the buyer is aware of them. Although I've not seen health checks on the parents on a health cert before, so I don't know about that.

However HD can only be diagnosed with Xrays, and is usually not visible in very young puppies. The soonest you can check via Xray is through the PennHip procedure at 16 weeks, but the majority of vets will tell you that waiting until the dog is done growing gives you a more accurate Xray. That's why OFA certifys at 2, and the SV at 1yr. Many a dog with no mobility issues can still be dysplastic.
 
That's a health certificate, and yes by law any dog needs to be sold with one (at least here in FLorida, I assume all states). The health cert only says that the puppy received the proper legal vaccinations, had a fecal, was wormed, and seems to be free of communicable diseases. They will do a physical where they check for heart murmers and obvious physical defects like undescended testicles or unbilical hernias. These things are usually noted on the health cert, to ensure that the buyer is aware of them. Although I've not seen health checks on the parents on a health cert before, so I don't know about that.

However HD can only be diagnosed with Xrays, and is usually not visible in very young puppies. The soonest you can check via Xray is through the PennHip procedure at 16 weeks, but the majority of vets will tell you that waiting until the dog is done growing gives you a more accurate Xray. That's why OFA certifys at 2, and the SV at 1yr. Many a dog with no mobility issues can still be dysplastic.

Yea, one of those.I didnt know the proper name for it.I just called them Health Records.
 
It is not required in Ohio. I give a pamplet provided by the vet that tells when they received their vaccinations, and wormings. I keep certificates from the OFA for the dam, and for the sire if I own the sire, if not, I can point them to OFFA.org. I show them to puppy buyers as required.
 
LaRen, from what you posted that your guarantee stated, it said something like, THEY, the breeders, had the option of giving you money back and/or replacing the dog at THEIR discretion.

So your guarantee is just that,,at THEIR discretion. The decision on giving you money back is THEIR decision and from the looks of it, they decided they would rather replace with a puppy.

Just a lesson learned that if you get a contract, to read between the lines:))
 
Another reason why I hate my breeder!!!!!!!

My Dog: Sinister Black Lawler


****** pedigree removed by Admin*****

My dog is inbred! :censored:Just found out! Now I know why his father is no longer with them!:mad:
 
Old Bitch was a health MESS and we found out EARLY (she had TPO at 6 months for severe hip dysplasia, has dicoid lupus diagnosed around 4 months, thyroid issues, incontinence issues, eating disorder,it went on and on- all diagnosed in her first year). As we got the health info I called her breeder. I did not expect anything FROM the breeder. I assumed that the health info I gave her would help her adjust her breeding program. I also hoped she would share the dx (at least the HD dx) with the littermates so they might get an early heads up (ours was discovered while dealing with something else). I never asked for or expected a refund or another puppy. That she did not offer either did not make me think she was. That she did not take the information as useful and that she did not make adjustments or let littermates know DID.

That said, Old Bitch has had a nice long life. She has a solid, loving personality. Her HD has slowed her in her old age, but diet, supplements, swimming, and a few hip surgeries through out her life and she has been good. HD does not always have to be a death sentence.
 
Another reason why I hate my breeder!!!!!!!

My Dog: Sinister Black Lawler

****** Peidgree removed by Admin*****

My dog is inbred! :censored:Just found out! Now I know why his father is no longer with them!:mad:
No you don't. You just assume that they no longer have him because he is not on their website anymore. He may have been retired or sold.
 
Let me tell you I would get a second opinion. I was told my dog had HD at 18 months. He's now 7 and guess what. Had new x-rays done to what out what was going on because he seemed to have difficulty sitting down. Well, it was not HD - never was HD. I looked at the new x-rays and I, with totally no reading of an x-ray could tell there was no HD. Got old x-rays from old vet and sent to new vet . Simply someone did not know what they were looking at.
 
My GSD Sinister is a great, amazing, beautiful dog that I absolutely adore :wub: but he came from a BYB and his parents are no longer listed on there website and I find that weird :confused:. When I took Sin to the Vet he let out a little cry when she was moving his back left leg around to see if it was ok. She did Xrays and said that he has very, very mild HD but we wont know the real outcome or how it will effect him for another year (he is only a year old):(. I called his breeder to let her know and she told me to bring him back and they would have him PTS!!! :eek: They told me they would not give me my money back but they would give me another puppy, I DONT WANT ANOTHER PUPPY, I LOVE MY BOY! When I asked her why she would put him to sleep not knowing if his HD would ever hurt him or effect his life she told me that no one wants a dog with HD. I told her I would never dream of taking back my boy only for him to be PTS and that I wasn't looking to give him back or get another puppy, I just wanted my money back. How could someone give back their dog after having it for almost a year????? I would never recommend her ever and I think she's running a really crappy business. :mad:
My 10 year old GSD was diagnosed with mild HD at 8 months old. You'd never know it with the active,happy life he's had.
 
I would send the x-ray in for prelims to the OFA and see how they rate it. They would be more accurate. Then you can do it again in 1yr and see if they rate them any differently. I think the official rating is confirmed by 3 radiologist at the OFA if I remember right. Another thing to do is PennHip which compares his hips to the breed, every year the number can change because the average changes but you don't need to ever redo it. It will say his hip are better that ?% of the number of GSD tested. This is a slightly expensive test and is usually done by breeders only. The OFA is done by both breeders and sometimes to confirm the hips and elbows are ok for agility and working dogs. It only cost the amount for the x-rays and I think $35 or 45 for the hips only. If you do it again when he turns 2 I'd do those too and send them in too as it isn't much more to have both certified. Make sure when you send in the papers, you initial the part that gives them permission to publish abnormal results. I did that to mine and now when you look up my dog's parents, her record shows up showing there is a problem. I actually made sure they had the health certifications and still had trouble. So if the breeder decided to breed her siblings, people will see their pup's aunt has pretty bad elbow dysplasia. It shows up on her half siblings ofa records, parents, siblings, etc. So anyone getting a pup from the same lines will know about it but i really think it comes from her mom's side as I can't find many records on the OFA for her mom, just her mom and her mom's dad. Her dad's records go back generation and generations.
 
And what are the physical signs of HD, and about what age do GSDs get HD?I am not sure Molly may get it, because she doesn't have those hips liek most GSDs.
Many dogs with hip dysplasia never show any outward signs of their condition, although some move with an altered gait, especially when running - "bunny hopping" can be an outward signs.

In most cases, dysplasia is found and diagnosed when you do x-rays. A lot of breeders require their puppy buyers to do x-rays on their dogs and send them to OFFA for rating by the time the dog is two years old.

In general, if you're worried about HD and want to make sure your dog has good hips, x-rays are recommended. It's best if they are done by a vet who knows what they are doing, as many general practice vets poorly position the hips, which affects the reading.

Leerburg has an excellent article on positioning for x-rays and why it's important,
here - The Importance of Good Positioning on Canine Hip X-rays

There is no "age German Shepherds get hip dysplasia." While any dog, regardless of breed, can get HD, it doesn't mean that all of them will or even that most of them will. Large breeds tend to have a higher incidence of HD when compared to small breeds, and some breeds are more prone to it. According to OFFA, the breed most likely to be affected are Bulldogs - 73% of all Bulldogs rated by OFFA have been found to be dysplastic. Incidentally, German Shepherds rank 40th on OFFA's HD statistics, with less than 20% of dogs rated by OFFA being dysplastic.
 
And this is why, if you want to be a breeder, you have to like people a whole lot.

If people buy an office chair, and it has a mechanical failure, and they call the manufacturer. The manufacturer looks up the warranty information and then sends them a new part. They do not let you keep the old chair, and send you a new chair. they do not give you your money back.

With any half-way decent breeding situation, the $600 dollar puppy purchase price does not cover the cost of vet care, training, and food for their dogs. And there are a ton of other expenses, training, trialing, licenses, registrations, supplies, and the tons of time that goes into all of it.

So when the OP calls up and says, "My vet says my puppy has mild HD, I want my money back." Well, so sorry. If you bought a bicycle and after a year you bent the rim, are you going to want your money back? And keep the bicycle???

Breeders and painted with a pretty negative brush. If you charge ANYTHING, you are money grubbing and selling family members, and doing it for the money.

If you do not have the breeding stock tested and trialed and not too old and not too young and not too many breedings, then you are irresponsible.

If you have only had this litter, then you are inexperienced.

If you have more than one litter per year, you are a puppy mill.

If you have less than 20 years experience, you don't know what you are doing and no one should trust you.

If you have more than 20 years experience, than you are old school probably not doing everything that people expect you to.

If you have ever produced a dog with an issue, you are the scum of the earth.

If you find out that somebody wants to give up your dog, you better be prepared to buy back the dog -- not just take it back, and to pay what they want, including their costs for training, vet care, and heartguard. I mean REALLY! And to buy their other dog too, that has nothing to do with you. And to pay for its training, vet care and heartguard.

You must be available around the clock, taking care of puppies full-time, but you MUST NOT make a living by doing so.

But I ask you, what do breeders get from their puppy buyers? What guarantees do they make to us?

While HD is a polygenic condition, it can be seriously affected by the environment and feeding, and possibly early neuter/spay. We can make suggestions and even put it in the contract that the dog will not be spayed or neutered until after it reaches 2 years, but people will do it anyway.

People will let the puppy jump off of decks because it is cute and then complain if the dog develops a limp.

They will call and tell us proudly that the 4 or 5 month old puppy is now running three miles with them every morning.

They will let us know how well he is doing on Purina, or Iams, or Science Diet.

They will totally ignore what we say about adult food and put the dog on puppy food and keep it on puppy food.

They will let the puppy get run over by a car, or electrocuted, or poisoned.

They will forget to bring the health record to their vet and allow their vet to re-vaccinate the puppy month after month.

They will take a brand new puppy, en route to home for the first time, and stop at a pet store and let the puppy walk around on the floor and sniff other dogs.

They will let the puppy be overweight, looking like a coffee table.

There are some really awesome people out there purchasing puppies from us, who call and give us updates, not just call to tell us about what horrible thing happened to the dog, that actually read through the paperwork we prepared for them, and actually hear our advice and make a conscious decision to follow it or not. People who train and socialize their dogs. They do exist, but they are not necessarily the norm.

Maybe the breeders SHOULD have told them up front what the hip guarantee said and why. But to tell the truth, I am trying to get the people through the first few days without overwhelming them. Telling them NOT to take them to the pet store, what to feed, NOT to let the vet re-vaccinate the dog too soon, and on and on.

I mention my hip guarantee, but I really doubt that the people actually HEAR what I say about it.
 
Loved it selzer, your post is sooo very true. I have occasionally had litters myself. I also have a contract that covers all of those things. If someone has a puppy that they cant keep due to any situation I WILL take it back, and depending on the problems, issues, or reason they didnt want or couldn't keep that puppy at my discression I MAY refund money, do a partial refund, exchange a puppy for another if it is a temperment or personality issue where the puppy just didnt fit their lifestyle, etc... I take it on a case by case issue.

I have only had 1 puppy returned and that was because the family lost their job and source of income and couldn't afford to keep the puppy. I did give them a refund, but mostly because they had taken great care of this pup and I knew this wasn't a situation that they could have forseen. It hasn't happened to me so far but IF I had someone call me with a 1 year old dog and they stated their vet said it had HD I would ask them to have MY vet or one i approved of X-ray it. If it was a situation where at 2 years the dog was shown to have crippleing HD then I would offer 1 of 2 choices 1. Return the puppy and I will give a full refund or a replacement pup. or 2. offer a partial refund if they wanted to keep the dog.

While I do feel sorry for the OP for going through this dont panic yet. Let him grow and mature and any issues he has as a young dog may resolve. I would also get a second xray from an orthopedic vet that knows the proper positioning and how to correctly read the x-rays.
Sorry I rambled on so much, Good luck to the OP and let us know when you have new developments, I'm interested to see how his hips change with maturity.
 
I currently do not have in my contract that I would refund money. But, I can understand why I might want to. If someone returned a badly neglected pup, saying that it had HD, and they wanted a replacement puppy, I would rather give them their money back and be done with them, then to constantly tell them that there is nothing available that would suit them at present. I would not put another pup in that environment. I would offer the money back instead.

As for saying that they would euthanize the pup, and actually euthanizing the pup for mild dysplasia, I just don't know. I know that one would not want to breed the dog, so it would not be doing anyone any good at the breeders and it would be better for the dog to be with a family. But then even being very up front with a problem and giving the dog away, the new owners could be a serious nuisance about the dog. Could I put one of mine down for that, no. For crippling HD, I think that it would really depend.
 
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