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Discussion Starter #1
My GSD Sinister is a great, amazing, beautiful dog that I absolutely adore :wub: but he came from a BYB and his parents are no longer listed on there website and I find that weird :confused:. When I took Sin to the Vet he let out a little cry when she was moving his back left leg around to see if it was ok. She did Xrays and said that he has very, very mild HD but we wont know the real outcome or how it will effect him for another year (he is only a year old):(. I called his breeder to let her know and she told me to bring him back and they would have him PTS!!! :eek: They told me they would not give me my money back but they would give me another puppy, I DONT WANT ANOTHER PUPPY, I LOVE MY BOY! When I asked her why she would put him to sleep not knowing if his HD would ever hurt him or effect his life she told me that no one wants a dog with HD. I told her I would never dream of taking back my boy only for him to be PTS and that I wasn't looking to give him back or get another puppy, I just wanted my money back. How could someone give back their dog after having it for almost a year????? I would never recommend her ever and I think she's running a really crappy business. :mad:
 

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Big hugs to you and your boy. Sorry you had to hear such load of garbage from his breeder. Mild HD in most cases as others said won't affect the dog's life. Geez... PTS a one year old... what was this person thinking????
 

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Start up with Esther - c for your puppy, and glucosamin/Chondrotin. Keep him lean and exercise as much as you can because strong muscles will help take the pressure off the joint.

Alot of our dogs have laxity in their hips so will fail their x-rays, but still live long and healthy lives.

Ester-C: Miracle Cure for Hip Dysplasia???

Hip Dysplasia in Dogs: Diagnosis, Treatment, and Prevention

As far as getting a new puppy or money back or whatever........that should have been clearly spelled out in the Puppy Agreement you signed when you purchased the puppy. If it didn't say they would refund, then they told you up front that they wouldn't...
 

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Sorry, but you just need to put this into the lessons learned book. It's a good thing that you found out early so you can manage it. Put your focus there - it sounds like you've already written off the breeder (another good thing) Not worth spending any energy thinking about them.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
In the paperwork it says that they will either take your puppy and give you a new puppy or give money back, it depends on the situation. But I would be saving her money by keeping my boy and getting my money back instead of her taking him and having to pay for him to be PTS and then giving me a puppy that she wont be able to make money off of right? Why cant she let me keep my boy and get my money back? She would be putting down a great dog for a tiny reason
 

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Just want to add, I wouldn't necessarily go jumping to worst case scenarios. Is your vet an experienced Ortho vet? If not, what she calls very very mild HD, might actually be nothing. I would consider monitoring and supplementing and going back for a 2nd opinion in a year or so to see how everything developed.

Truthfully, sometimes they cry because they don't like their leg being twisted around. Sometimes it's muscular. In my experience, very very mild HD is not symptomatic in a young dog. Meaning I wouldn't expect their to be pain in the joint. I've seen several mildly dysplastic and moderate dysplastic dogs who compete regularly with no noticeable issue.

What did your contract look like? If you didn't have one, then you do not have the right to expect anything. You basically purchased the Puppy As Is. If they are not abiding by their contract then I would be angry. [ETA- Just saw your post. DH is a lawyer, so how things are worded is important. If it's at their discretion, it's at their discretion. The simple fact of the matter is that right now they may not have the money, so they offer the other option of a replacement puppy. I know you're upset and I'm not necessarily saying that they are a good breeder. The reality is that many contracts write guarantees so that you don't want to use them so they don't have to give them. This includes reputable and disreputable breeders. That's why i consider the majority of guarantees to be worthless.]

I don't like that they offered to put the Puppy to sleep, although I think sometimes that is the responsiblity of the breeder. A crippled dog that is in pain or has some kind of genetic issue is sometimes is better off euthanized. I wouldn't consider mildly dysplastic that kind of issue. In this case, I think they wanted you to keep the puppy and weren't above using a little guilt.

Also, I guess I just don't get this concept of "guarantees" when it comes to our pets. I think it's a marketing gimic. I understand people purchasing breeding animals. Obviously, if your primary goal is to have an animal that can certify for breeding then that's what you want....but a companion animal? There isn't a person on here who can "guarantee" that a puppy will be free of dysplasia. If you're getting a dog and you've done the proper research then you KNOW this. Like kids, dogs have a way of growing up in ways we don't expect. I mean if you adopt and your kid turns out to have a learning disability or some kind of health issue do you get to return it? Does the agency give you back part of the money?

I bought from a breeder who didn't offer a guarantee. I was satisfied with the health and temperament of the parents, and the health and temperament of the puppies at the time of purchase. I talk to the breeder every couple of months when she checks to see how everyone is doing. And I know that if I had a problem she would take the dog back in a heartbeat because she loves her animals and is proud of what she has produced.

But when I signed the paper and took that puppy home, he became my responsiblity, not hers. I don't know...just me.
 

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not much to add, but i was wondering about the vet visit as well. The pain sounds like it could have been Pano, did he/she check the long bones. I would also be curious about the vets ability to acurately read the x-rays.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I got a 2 year hip guarantee and the paperwork stated "They will either take your puppy and give you a new puppy or give money back, it depends on the situation."
 

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Discussion Starter #11
GSDsunshine
We took him in for a complete check up. When she tested his right leg it was fine and he did not cry. When she did his left leg he cried. She gave him a little while and said it could be sore from playing with his other GSD buddy. She tried it again and he cried out again. She said that he could be bruised but recommended that he get an Xray. So he got the Xray and she said that it looked like it is early HD. She told me that it is not for sure but that there is a good chance that it is. She said I should bring him back in for another Xray when he turns 2 (so in a year). She also said that if it is HD he could still live a normal happy and painless life or it could go the opposite. I wonder if the breeder has had problems with any of the other pups from the litter because she was very rude and immediately defensive
 

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I got a 2 year hip guarantee and the paperwork stated "They will either take your puppy and give you a new puppy or give money back, it depends on the situation."

I'm not saying it's right. but if that's what it says then I would say that they are abiding by their contract. (Although it's a terrible contract if it's that vague) It doesn't say what situation, it merely says the situation. Whose situation? The dog's? Yours? Their personal financial situation?

It's an "or" and they're offering you one of the options. If you choose not to take it, then you are choosing not to avail yourself of the provisions of their guarantee. Live and learn.
 

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I don't like that they offered to put the Puppy to sleep, although I think sometimes that is the responsiblity of the breeder.

Also, I guess I just don't get this concept of "guarantees" when it comes to our pets. If you're getting a dog and you've done the proper research then you KNOW this. Like kids, dogs have a way of growing up in ways we don't expect. I mean if you adopt and your kid turns out to have a learning disability or some kind of health issue do you get to return it? Does the agency give you back part of the money?

I bought from a breeder who didn't offer a guarantee.
I was satisfied with the health and temperament of the parents, and the health and temperament of the puppies at the time of purchase.
I talk to the breeder every couple of months when she checks to see how everyone is doing. And I know that if I had a problem she would take the dog back in a heartbeat because she loves her animals and is proud of what she has produced.

But when I signed the paper and took that puppy home, he became my responsiblity, not hers. I don't know...just me.
Completey agree. If you do your research and look at what the breeder has produced in the past, you can see whether or not there are issues.

Many breeders don't care once they have your money and will continue to pump out litters, easier to replace a pup than fix a problem. The throw away society we live in...
and how do you know if you get a replacement, that pup would be healthy?


I also agree that the vet should have positioned your pup correctly/ and have experience in reading them or sent you to an ortho vet.
Did he even mention it may be Pano?
Onyx was diagnosed with "severe HD" at 6 months, horrid positioning and lucky for us after doing research on it, it was only a bout of Pano.
And if your pup does have HD, get on the supplements now, so he will thrive as he grows!
 

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The agreement is too vague and should have been clarified before the dog was purchased.

The first thing I would do is see a good radiologist or ortho vet, someone that specializes in this area and knows how to take a proper x-ray. You cannot rule HD in or out by and external exam or moving the dog's leg, it is confirmed with x-rays, but the positioning of the x-rays is super important. There are probably people on this forum that can give you a more accurate reading than many non-ortho vets, provided the x-rays are done correctly.
 

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Start up on gluc/chron supplements and some EsterC. Anna may have mild displaysia in her left hip (seen during her 1 year-ish xray) but we've become proactive.

She's lean and active and once it's warmer (and less flood like here) we're going to step up her water activities.
 

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What makes you think that you should be able to both keep the dog AND have the breeder return your money?

In a contract case, I have always heard that the courts can make you whole (as in before the contract) BUT not better than before the contract.

OTOH, perhaps the breeder could return a portion of the purchase price since the dog should be less valuable if it really does have HD??

Tough circumstance and you certainly have my sympathy!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well I am keeping him. I would never give him up. I just think that thats a really crappy buisness she has. I mean who would give up their pet just so he could be PTS and then you end up with another puppy from this crappy breeder that might even end up the same way? I have read on other breeders websites that they give longer guarantees like 3-5 years and they will let you keep your dog and will either give you another puppy or they will give you back your money. All I know is that in the future I will be asking you guys who I should go with when I am looking for another PB GSD and I will plan on spending more than $600 (what I paid for him)
 

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Do you know the parents hip ratings? Can you post Sinister's pedigree on pedigreedatabase with the parents hip ratings as well? That would be the only way to attempt to warn the next ppl that will buy from this person.
 

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I will have to scan his pedigree onto the computer. I got him from ****name of kennel and location removed by Admin****. His father is no longer on their website, which worries me
 

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Well I am keeping him. I would never give him up. I just think that thats a really crappy buisness she has. I mean who would give up their pet just so he could be PTS and then you end up with another puppy from this crappy breeder that might even end up the same way? I have read on other breeders websites that they give longer guarantees like 3-5 years and they will let you keep your dog and will either give you another puppy or they will give you back your money. All I know is that in the future I will be asking you guys who I should go with when I am looking for another PB GSD and I will plan on spending more than $600 (what I paid for him)
I'm sorry your puppy may have HD. If he does, I hope he won't have any further problems with it.

I agree with others that the breeder offered you what was in the contract - take the puppy back and give you a new puppy or a refund. BUT I also agree that some breeders say they'll put a puppy down in order for the puppy owner to void the contract and back out of the agreement like you did - this ploy saves them a lot of money I'm sure.

I'm sure the next time you get a puppy you'll be more careful reading the contract, asking questions, understanding it, etc. However, I honestly don't think price has much to do with guaranteeing that you'll get a better dog or finding a more reputable breeder - there are good breeders who don't charge an arm and a leg, and there are bad breeders whose prices are sky high. While it's true, the majority of the Hooligans were given to me as gifts, I've never paid more than $500 for the ones I paid for and they've all been fantastic dogs.
 
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