German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,132 Posts
Uhg, it gets worse and worse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Large entities and bureaucrats always have political and financial agendas that rarely seem to turn out good for anyone other than them. Recent examples.

1. Egg salmonella scare - caused by large corporation + bureaucratic failure to enforce existing legislation

Outcome - Large corporate & government failure leads to these same entities writing & pushing to implement new laws and regulations that will micromanage & tax all small egg producers out of business

2. H1N1 scare - caused by large organization and bureaucratic failure killed or severely injured {2400+} more of the public than the supposed pandemic {625}

Outcome - Large organization & government failure leads to new proposed laws and regulations to force people, including all health care providers to take potentially dangerous vaccinations. Regular Flu vaccine & H1N1 vaccine combined for this year flu shots and not widely publicized. Most vaccines used in the US now made in China (See US Pet Food poisoning deaths, lead in children's toys, etc. etc. result from products made in China)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,300 Posts
United Kennel Club: AVMA

American Veterinary Medical Association--Are they turning their backs on dog breeders?
by Sara Chisnell-Voigt, UKC Legal Counsel


Recently the American Veterinary Medical Association announced a model bill aimed at regulating dog breeders. As these bills have been being pushed in many states across the nation in the past year or two, AVMA has decided to jump on board. The result is a bill that not only over-regulates responsible hobby breeders but also contains many sections that are just downright insulting. The bill is quite lengthy, so I’ll only cover some of the worst sections, but suffice it to say that nothing about the bill bodes well for dog breeders, and does not promise any sort of support or protection from AVMA with regards to dog owners’ rights.

I’ll preface this with my feelings and beliefs on these commercial breeder bills. I think they stink—they’re wolves in sheep’s clothing. Animal rights groups get these bills pushed through by screaming ‘puppy mill’ at legislators and selling it with the notion it’s all about dog welfare. Most of these bills, if passed, will end up hurting responsible hobby breeders, and even putting many out of business. One of the things on the animal rights agenda is to stop all animal breeding period, and putting all dog breeders out of business is the ultimate goal. Now, I certainly don’t want any dogs to suffer in the deplorable conditions some ‘puppy mills’ have, but these laws are not going to fix that problem. Between cruelty/neglect laws, and local kennel inspections and licensing, use of those laws should be enough to take action against the bad seeds. There is simply no need to micromanage dog breeding. I think the government has more important issues to worry about than to criminalize dog breeding. It’s all getting a little too big brother for me.

The bill is allegedly intended to provide basic standards of care for dog breeders, but one can see after reading this bill that it’s anything but basic. I won’t even get into the stringent yet also abstract care regulations—including requiring different forms of “enrichment” and “opportunity to partake in species-specific behavior”—HUH?! In the “Background and Context” document accompanying the bill, AVMA even admitted that “most facilities meet or exceed this level of care.” If this is the case, then why would legislation such as this even be necessary? The bill regulates “high-volume breeders” and “high volume retailers.” According to AVMA, a “high volume breeder” is one that whelps more than 6 litters in a year. Where does this number come from? AVMA cites AKC as defining “high volume breeders.” I have a real problem with defining whether a breeder is good or bad by the number of pups they produce in a year. Numbers don’t mean a thing. The number of pups whelped per year is in no way relative to the welfare of dogs belonging to the breeder. A person can just as easily neglect or abuse one dog as they can sixty dogs. I know a very reputable breeder of hunting dogs that whelped seven litters this year simply due to client demand. The breeder does not advertise, his dogs are sought after due to word of mouth and the dogs speak for themselves-they are fantastic. The breeder screens all buyers, and buyers must sign a contract agreeing the pup must come back to the breeder should it ever become unwanted. The pups are hand raised, and his kennel is impeccable—some dogs even live in the house. Is he a ‘bad’/commercial breeder/ puppy mill simply because of the number of dogs he’s bred this year? On the flip side, there’s a woman down the road who has started breeding some toy breed dogs, and probably has a maximum of 10 dogs total. The dogs live in a rusty wire pen, uncovered and unsheltered from the elements, and are left out all night in any kind of weather. Yet, under this bill the responsible breeder would be negatively labeled and regulated, and the woman breeding toy dogs whose welfare may be questionable would not be covered under the bill at all.

I didn't read everything and won't have time to til after class, but I want to throw my two cents in on this.

I actually think that is a good thing. It is talking about stuff like breeding siminars and stuff, right?

I think a breeder should know as much as possible about breeding. Breeding isn't just a hobby for some people, it's a business. And when people run a business, they are qualified in some way.

Also, about the large volume breeders, what are the chances of them being a reputable breeder and a BYB or puppy mill? I think the chances of them being a BYB or puppy mill is greater than them being a reputable breeder, not saying that it's wrong for a breeder to produce 6 or more litters a year as long as they do it the right way.

And another thing. I think that there should be a program for breeders, a program that those who are qualified could enter and get a license to become a breeder. Just like vet school. Regardless of whether or not a breeder is doing it for profit or love of the breed, it is a profession.

That's how I feel on what I've read so far. It might sound ignorant and uninformed, but that's just how I feel.
 

·
Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch
Joined
·
13,571 Posts
So you support....
...vets having to approve a breeding? Are they going to add a 5th year to vet school so vets have to actually learn something about behavior, training, determining breed worthiness, breed specific physical, temperament and health traits, pedigrees, bloodlines, etc...? And if breeding programs are now going to be subject to the whims of the personal agendas of vets, are they going to do anything about the vets who are fanatical for early spay/neuter and feel any intentional breeding is the devil's work?
...people's HOMES being subject to unannounced inspections without a warrant (in direct violation of the 4th Ammendment) by whomever the local municipality decides is qualified (HSUS worker? PETA supporter?)
...breeder's being subject to meeting criteria laid out by bureaucrats who don't know squat about dogs and that we all know are easily swayed by $ and pressure from bleeding heart constituants (who also often don't know squat about dogs).
...breeders being unable to mount any defense against any violations they are accused of (guilty until proven innocent.. and no chance to prove innocent)?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Not a single breeder regulation bill that's come out in recent years has threatened ONLY those they claim they are after (the BYBs and puppy mills) without also seriously threatening the good, responsible breeders.

I don't mean this personally, but frankly the trend of "I didn't read it all (or consider what it really means) but I support it" is a huge part of the problem. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,300 Posts
So you support....
...vets having to approve a breeding? Are they going to add a 5th year to vet school so vets have to actually learn something about behavior, training, determining breed worthiness, breed specific physical, temperament and health traits, pedigrees, bloodlines, etc...? And if breeding programs are now going to be subject to the whims of the personal agendas of vets, are they going to do anything about the vets who are fanatical for early spay/neuter and feel any intentional breeding is the devil's work?
...people's HOMES being subject to unannounced inspections without a warrant (in direct violation of the 4th Ammendment) by whomever the local municipality decides is qualified (HSUS worker? PETA supporter?)
...breeder's being subject to meeting criteria laid out by bureaucrats who don't know squat about dogs and that we all know are easily swayed by $ and pressure from bleeding heart constituants (who also often don't know squat about dogs).
...breeders being unable to mount any defense against any violations they are accused of (guilty until proven innocent.. and no chance to prove innocent)?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Not a single breeder regulation bill that's come out in recent years has threatened ONLY those they claim they are after (the BYBs and puppy mills) without also seriously threatening the good, responsible breeders.

I don't mean this personally, but frankly the trend of "I didn't read it all (or consider what it really means) but I support it" is a huge part of the problem. :(
If that's what it means, then no, I don't support it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,132 Posts
Chris,

That is an awesome post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I don't mean this personally, but frankly the trend of "I didn't read it all (or consider what it really means) but I support it" is a huge part of the problem. :(
I agree. People are so in the mindset of "something has to be done!!!" but the truth is, there are already regulations for commercial breeders and there are already anti-cruelty laws. Pushing for further and further restrictions is going to mean that in the future, the only breeders will be commercial breeders. They will be the only ones able to afford the licensing, fees, etc and provide the facilities that meet USDA guidelines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,257 Posts
so annoying when laws on the books don't get the support needed to enforce yet the sensational agendas get the press and support - well until financial support is needed...oh I guess that means we might need to create jobs with more tax dollars....or more fees of some sort.....how ridiculous!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,132 Posts
What gets me is that posts about nasty neighbors and different collars and rehoming dogs with issues get tons of responses, and this post and many like it get a handful of responses.

Like the majority of the people on this message board really do not believe that this will affect them much.

If they pass these laws, they will affect us ALL.

First of all these laws mean a WHOLE lot tax dollars, in organization, jobs, etc. Some of that will be generated by higher fees, higher fees for intact animals and such. The rest of it, and probably the majority of it will come from tax payers in raised taxes.

Next, a lot of the best breeders will throw up their hands and stop breeding all together, or they will cut down their breeding to only support themselves and a few friends, one litter maybe in two or three years. This means fewer well-bred dogs to choose from.

With the added money that responsible breeders will be expected to pay out, and the decrease in well-bred pups out there, breeders will increase the price of dogs.
A dog that now costs 1500$ might cost $2500-$5000, depending.

Puppy mills will still exist, in fact, they will INCREASE the number of puppies they produce to offset the added costs and such, and to fill the gap left behind by the better breeders who no longer want to participate.

Veterinarians will ok breedings, because if they do not someone else will, and they will lose money by losing the customer.

The criminals keeping loads of breeding dogs in filthy conditions will continue to do what they have always done. They are not following the laws now, and new laws will not be followed either.

People having a pet that they want to breed or "accidently" allow to breed will not be stopped by any of this -- bitches will not be wearing chastidy belts that only vets have the keys to. So the BYBs will continue to have their puppies.

The ONLY outcome to all of this I can see is fewer litters from reputable breeders, increase in the costs of a purebred dog, and increase in tax dollars used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Guess it's changed a little bit since I was in tech school, running around UIUC's vet school for two semesters with the vet students. We, as a group, were never lectured to the extent of spaying/neutering every dog that hit our exam table (that I remember). And while I was in private practice, we never did.

Save the one older vet that let a couple who owned a dachshund with a bad, bad case of parrot mouth have it when they said they were going to breed.

Guess it's time for a disappointed letter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
604 Posts
Way to shoot yourselves in the foot, AVMA. If all the animal breeders go out of business, we won't need veterinarians anymore, will we?

You might want to practice saying, "Do you want fries with that?"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
What does it mean that it is a "model bill"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,442 Posts
This is like many other areas where they are intent on PASSING new laws, rather than being intent on ENFORCING the laws that are already on the books.

You have kennels like the one in PA that Biden got his puppy from, which are producing large numbers of dogs and have failed inspections time and time again for having dirty conditions, dog not being taken care of, no shots, missing records, etc. yet they are still in business. WTF. There's obviously a kink in the system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
What gets me is that posts about nasty neighbors and different collars and rehoming dogs with issues get tons of responses, and this post and many like it get a handful of responses.
Could be just because there isn't much to say other than, "Yep, that sucks."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,451 Posts
I don't mean this personally, but frankly the trend of "I didn't read it all (or consider what it really means) but I support it" is a huge part of the problem. :(
Yes, this is frightening. "I don't have time to read it.....but I'll blindly support something that strips peoples' rights and makes it even MORE complicated for GOOD breeders to breed good dogs..." I'm not even a breeder and I *do* take it personally. People admittedly won't really delve into these issues thinking they know who is "qualified" and who isn't (as if that's anyone's decision to make anyway....)

*shakes head*
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
604 Posts
Yes, this is frightening. "I don't have time to read it.....but I'll blindly support something that strips peoples' rights and makes it even MORE complicated for GOOD breeders to breed good dogs..." I'm not even a breeder and I *do* take it personally. People admittedly won't really delve into these issues thinking they know who is "qualified" and who isn't (as if that's anyone's decision to make anyway....)

*shakes head*
Agreed. And why does a politician who's never bred a litter (or may never have even owned a dog in his life) get to tell somebody how to run their business?

This bill has the stench of PETA hanging around it, I'd guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,315 Posts
Agreed. And why does a politician who's never bred a litter (or may never have even owned a dog in his life) get to tell somebody how to run their business?

This bill has the stench of PETA hanging around it, I'd guess.
Theres one politician I remember who dumped his pregnant GSD at a shelter...he was going to breed her so didn't spay her after adopting her which was against SC law
Sen. Kent Williams Defends Right to Dump Dog at a Public Shelter | Animal Law Coalition
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,563 Posts
I find it terribly frightening that veterinarians would think they know more about breeding and bloodlines than breeders do. My vets don't' even seem capable of reading the 2006 AAHA guidelines for vaccines. How could they possibly know all the different criteria for all the breeds?
 

·
"I like Daffy" Moderator
Joined
·
3,276 Posts
In an effort to fight this bill and others like it, the dog clubs and dog owners in Illinois have banded together to fight for our rights to breed and own and train dogs.

illinoisfederationdogclubs&owners is the website. You can join our fight -- you don't even have to live in Illinois to be a member! At least become a frienc on our Facebook page. We can use those numbers to show interest in our work to the legislators.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top