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Discussion Starter #1
So I got into a large debate with my vet tuesday night. We were discussing nutrition (specifically dry kibble). She disagrees with grain free diet. :cry: Says that dogs are not obligate carnivores and therefore need grain in their diet. We argued about corn being used as a filler and whether or not its digestible...whole corn vs rolled etc...we went rounds on this topic. :crazy: We talked about allergens and what is the leading allergen in dog food. We discussed bioavailability to certain grains and carbohydrates...

ANYWAY

Ive done lots of research on the topic...I even took numerous classes in school on k9 and feline nutrition. Im going to go back to her with loads of research....in hand, hard evidence she can look at and not argue with. Im in the process of going through my binders looking for articles..

Anyone know any great websites off the top of their heads?

This whole argument started with an ad from Solid Gold that she responded to...which in her defense the ad was absolute garbage. Never read anything like it...it didnt' even make any sense.

p.s. she thinks Science Diet is an amazing food :rofl: enough said :wild:
 

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Discussion Starter #2
After re-reading this post. I KNOW that dogs are not obligate carnivores..cats are. this wasn't part of the argument
 

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Just because they're not obligate carnivores doesn't mean they need grains, does it? They can have fruits and veggies. Cats and ferrets can't digest fruits or veggies because they are obligate carnivores.
 

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Honestly, I can't think of any species that has to have grains. Humans can certainly do quite well without them.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
This was part of my argument. That a grain free diet doesn't JUST have protein. It has plenty of vegetables, fruits..carbohydrate sources! That grains are generally used as "fillers" and they are also known to be high allergens
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Honestly, I can't think of any species that has to have grains. Humans can certainly do quite well without them.
I actually asked her if she wanted to see my poop after I ate corn to show how well we digest it LMAO :rofl: She wasn't so amused :wild:
 

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Well most grain free kibbles have a ton of other stuff than meat in them, so her argument about that is ridiculous. As far as grains...one could argue easily humans could easily get by without them provided that they have a sufficient supply of carbohydrates coming in from other sources such as sweet potato and beans.

I'm curious for people that are pro grain...what exactly do they think the nutritional value they provide for dogs? Again, a lot of them have very little value for humans yet alone dogs who do not process grains nearly as well as we done. I wouldn't mind seeing high protein complex grains such as quinoa in dog food. But that would be extremely non cost effective.

Corn, no matter how many ways people try to argue it...is used for one purpose in dog food: it is a cheap filler. Plain and simple. Science Diet and Purina would not use it if it cost 4 times as much.
 

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Long ago I learn not to discuss with a vet about:

Nutrition
Training and behaviour
Breeds

Did I mention I was in vet school and I'm back again into it? I know first hand that 90% don't have a clue about the above.
 

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I actually asked her if she wanted to see my poop after I ate corn to show how well we digest it LMAO :rofl: She wasn't so amused :wild:
EXACTLY! And we digest it much better than dogs do!!!
 

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Hmmmm....well dogs are not obligate carnivores so she is right about that, Obligate means they HAVE TO have meat to survive, dogs do not need meat to survive and actually can live being a vegitarian, they won't thrive on that kind of diet but they will survive on it. Cats are obligate carnivores and therefore need meat to live. But on the other hand you are right in not wanting to feed your dog grains and neither do I. Now getting to the Solid Gold, IMO it's junk, according to dogfoodanalysis, it's too heavy on the grains. I started to feed my pup SG wolf cub before I read up on it, so I have a full bag if anyone would like it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Im going to try to find the article so everyone can read it. I was literally in tears laughing! I have never used Solid Gold but thought it was a decent food. would never use it in a million years after reading this... I just started feeding TOTW, prior to that BB wilderness..although Im not thrilled with the horrendous smells TOTW is causing to come out of the back ends of my dogs lol!! I dont see why any person would ever think that grains are a good diet...I just dont get it. I thought they were UNIVERSALLY known to be a filler?!?!?! *sigh* oh well
 

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I hate the fact that all of the puppy foods, aside from Orijen, has grains. I don't see the need to feed a diet with grains in it to a dog. I think it's just a waste of money, 'cause you're paying for something that your dog can't digest.
 

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I'm certainly not a canine nutritionist, never been to veterinary college once (let alone more than that), but....I trust my vet. If I didn't, I wouldn't be in his office. I also trust myself, and am able to see whether my dog is thriving or not. I've had challenges finding a diet that all three dogs can eat, will eat, and will thrive on. I am now feeding a dry food recommended by the breeder of my first GSD, topped once or twice per week with canned food as a treat. They get flavored vitamins as cookies, and during prime shedding and coat re-growth seasons they get a powdered, flavored fatty-acid supplement sprinkled on their food once a week. This has resulted in all three dogs having great muscle tone, energy levels, peak performances at obedience trials, and thick lustrous coats. If it works, I'm not changing it.
 

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Scientists can't even come to an agreement on the argument of whether or not corn is digestible so I'm sure a customer and veterinarian wouldn't be able to come to an agreement upon it.

Don't you think the veterinarian will already know the facts that you are bringing to her? After all, she probably had to do the pre-vet courses and animal science courses. Animal nutrition would definitely be a basic class for any pre-vet student to take before applying to vet school.

I don't know much about vet offices but is there any chance she likes science diet because she makes good profit from the company by promoting and selling it?

Anyways, why argue when you are going to feed your dog what you're going to feed him/her? If the vet has it set in her mind that science diet is a good kibble because she truly thinks it's a good kibble then there is no changing her stand on it. Some people are just stubborn and stupid like that.
 

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I hate the fact that all of the puppy foods, aside from Orijen, has grains. I don't see the need to feed a diet with grains in it to a dog. I think it's just a waste of money, 'cause you're paying for something that your dog can't digest.
Actually not all puppy foods aside from Orijen have grains. Just thought I'd throw that in there.
 

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I hate the fact that all of the puppy foods, aside from Orijen, has grains. I don't see the need to feed a diet with grains in it to a dog. I think it's just a waste of money, 'cause you're paying for something that your dog can't digest.

You are right and I myself do feed Orijen but IMO I don't think it will hurt a dog to have "some" grains in his or her diet. I know everyone compairs dogs to wolves and coyotes and there are some differences in temperament, but the digestive system is very close. You WILL find grains in a coyotes belly esp if he just ate a deer, turkey, rabbit etc. A lot of people think they eat the meat first but this is not true, they eat the innards (guts) first then move to the meat and bone. Anyway, most prey they eat are dependant on grains....so when they eat the stomach content they are actually getting grains in their diet. They will also eat nuts, corn, wheat if hungry.
 

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Long ago I learn not to discuss with a vet about:

Nutrition
Training and behaviour
Breeds

Did I mention I was in vet school and I'm back again into it? I know first hand that 90% don't have a clue about the above.
:D This person has it correct. I have talked with vets before after they talk about how healthy my pets look, then they ask what I am feeding and I used to tell them the truth (raw), but sometimes it just isn't worth the nasty looks and their treatment of your choice after wards. I had a vet look at me and say, "so you feed your pets TABLE SCRAPS?!"

I did have a great discussion once and she openly admitted that she knew Science Diet was a crap food and her office was covered with it. :eek:
 

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GoSearch - I went thru a similar discussion with my vet with the same results. He's a great vet, but I don't agree with his take on the various foods. All that discussion taught me, was that I'll never discuss it again with him!;) I also asked if he wanted to see a human poop sample with whole corn in it...in my case, since I have to wear a temporary colostomy bag following cancer, I could've shown him right then & there.:laugh::laugh:

He declined my offer.:D
 

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I don't think there's anything wrong with feeding grains, I just don't think there's a need to.
 
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