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Oh! Forgot to mention this, too:

Another regular at the local massive park has two Jack Russell Terriers. First time meeting? He only had his male one with him and it quickly stood its ground, hackles up and barking, as a 'big' 5 month dog (mine) was begging it to play. He was whining, crouching/bowing, hopping in circles...everything to get that JRT to play with him. Just had him move along and leave him alone. Throughout the next couple months we would see the guy with both. Our dog picked up quickly that Skip just didn't want to play. Didn't see him for a period of time...and then I saw his female. She had just given birth! Once they hit about 6 weeks, he starting bringing them. With both mom and dad. Yea, pretty scary thought/situation...but the mother never snaps at other dogs near her pups. This is now around mine being about 11 months old? I wondered how the male who used to hate my dog would be. Turns out perfectly fine. He sees that mine isn't a super young pup anymore and has proper dog-dog manners. It was really funny, because mine would walk with them all, as if he was one of their puppies.
 

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The mods have already pointed out just a few hours ago that your criticism of my comments are not on target.
That is a stretch. A mod, the op, didn't get my point. Not a biggie. People do have different opinions and do regularly disagree here.

Your temperament test is whether it can go to a dog park or not. I have not seen any evidence of your vast experience in dog handling or training. sorry. Only discussing behavior here. If another breed rather than a rott had been mentioned in that thread you'd have a totally different answer.

Any ways the quote i was speaking about was 90 in this thread. It was you who
Trust me, a "slight tug" will go unnoticed and will not throw a dog off
My point was a slight tug will actually stop the lead up to many aggressive displays if the handler knows what he is doing and sees the trouble brewing. Once the dog gets it and the owner backs it up the dog will not go a frenzied state.

The "lunging, screaming, scrabbling, and doing a host of other bad behaviors." sound like over excitement to me. You think more of it. It is the precursor to attack maybe in your mind? I'm sure you could train a dog to act like that by simply not knowing how to use a leash and standard collar.

Trust me, a "slight tug" will go unnoticed and will not throw a dog off that is lunging, screaming, scrabbling, and doing a host of other bad behaviors. The dogs can throw themselves off center with their own antics (falling off of curbs, falling down steps, etc.) and they keep on reacting. Dogs have a remarkable capacity to recenter themselves, and I never saw a dog that let being knocked off center deter it from being reactive unless being knocked off center was from a hard correction. Maybe this might work with a smaller or softer dog, or a dog that has not yet begun to react, but I just don't see it happening once a dog has entered the red zone.
 

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MAWL

The point would be to train the dog before it gets reactive. When it gets trained in low distraction it can work up to higher distractions.

Trying to stop a dog in that frenzied state you described is totally different than teaching a dog not to be reactive. Once a dog is kicking off, the hormones and endorphin's and whatever is going on in the mind is driving the dog. It is hard to battle that with single technique.

Also no single technique is able to cure everything. Need rewards and punishment in tandem to achieve results whether it is stopping re-activity or teaching it things.

But do check out Tyler mutos techniques. He does post impressive transformations of his clients reactive dogs using simple leash techniques and place/stay command. It is about working the energy of the dog, and developing a relationship where it wants to look to the handler for guidance rather than pull away from.



People who's dogs suddenly 'switch' at 2 or whatever, are simply living in an illusion for the start of the dogs life. They don't know what they are doing and they create the issues. They don't see the signs that the dog is gonna get aggressive in future when it doesn't get what it wants.

There is also the whole hormones thing, bitches in heat, competition, dogs wanting to dominate etc. Every owner of a dog will need to step up and deal with issues at some stage. It's whether people are prepared and know what to do which decides if behaviors get ingrained.
Aww Geezz, yeah "I'm" the slight tug sideways guy. :)

And to be accurate it's done, the instant the looks like maybe perhaps, possibly ... I'll act like a fool??

If the dog goes over the top, you've waited to long, time to turn around and try again. :)

As Slamdunc "accurately" pointed out if you try and fight through that with the wrong dog, you could get ...hurt! Short of hanging the dog, the battle is lost and since it's "Pet People" at issue here?? Best call is to disengage (turn around) and try again.

Slight tug sideways "before" the explosion,if you miss it, turn around try again and one would better know what to look for. :)

Tylor ticked me off with the over use I felt of treats with a "Pitty" he was training in "Place." Other than that I like the guy's work. >:)

One of my favorites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73qT5Z03VMw


Sooo how does that happen???
 

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Oh! Forgot to mention this, too:

Another regular at the local massive park has two Jack Russell Terriers. First time meeting? He only had his male one with him and it quickly stood its ground, hackles up and barking, as a 'big' 5 month dog (mine) was begging it to play. He was whining, crouching/bowing, hopping in circles...everything to get that JRT to play with him. Just had him move along and leave him alone. Throughout the next couple months we would see the guy with both. Our dog picked up quickly that Skip just didn't want to play. Didn't see him for a period of time...and then I saw his female. She had just given birth! Once they hit about 6 weeks, he starting bringing them. With both mom and dad. Yea, pretty scary thought/situation...but the mother never snaps at other dogs near her pups. This is now around mine being about 11 months old? I wondered how the male who used to hate my dog would be. Turns out perfectly fine. He sees that mine isn't a super young pup anymore and has proper dog-dog manners. It was really funny, because mine would walk with them all, as if he was one of their puppies.
It's a good story, you have a very good dog there. :)

But I tend to worry more about running into the ones more like "Shelly." My guy never got that bad, but since I had one with that "potential" I figured there must be more like him out there.

And ... most likely ... they'd be at the local Dog Park??? I don't know this to be true, on account of I never went to one, with any of my "Bullies." Worked out fine.
 

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That is a stretch. A mod, the op, didn't get my point. Not a biggie. People do have different opinions and do regularly disagree here.

Your temperament test is whether it can go to a dog park or not. I have not seen any evidence of your vast experience in dog handling or training. sorry. Only discussing behavior here. If another breed rather than a rott had been mentioned in that thread you'd have a totally different answer.
Not all breeds, or lines of any breed, are intended to be pets. I have not seen any evidence of your vast experience in German Shepherd handling or training. Sorry. Only discussing behavior here.

Any ways the quote i was speaking about was 90 in this thread. It was you who


My point was a slight tug will actually stop the lead up to many aggressive displays if the handler knows what he is doing and sees the trouble brewing. Once the dog gets it and the owner backs it up the dog will not go a frenzied state.
Ding ding ding, did you not see it was me asking Chip at what point does he apply his method of a slight tug to the dog? I am more than well aware of correcting a dog before it enters the red zone. My question was since CHIP was giving out advice, was when did he think JQP should do this, depending on CHIP'S explanation of HIS method, what JQP should expect.


The "lunging, screaming, scrabbling, and doing a host of other bad behaviors." sound like over excitement to me. You think more of it. It is the precursor to attack maybe in your mind? I'm sure you could train a dog to act like that by simply not knowing how to use a leash and standard collar.
Your point?
 

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The "lunging, screaming, scrabbling, and doing a host of other bad behaviors." sound like over excitement to me. You think more of it. It is the precursor to attack maybe in your mind? I'm sure you could train a dog to act like that by simply not knowing how to use a leash and standard collar.
Your point?
My point is those behaviors can be simple a miss use of the leash creating aggression eventually. Then the dog is reacting aggressively and you think it is his breeding or lack of it.

You said recently that you "can't be dealing with that crap" when i asked you why you didn't counter condition your aggressive dog.

You are simply not comfortable with aggression, and so your emotional reaction to it, but it is intrinsic to dogs of all breeds, as it is a part of there genetic makeup. We don't see canine teeth evolving into grazing teeth for example. And so there is a portion of the dogs mind with built in aggression to go with the reality of being a predator.
 

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The "lunging, screaming, scrabbling, and doing a host of other bad behaviors." sound like over excitement to me. You think more of it. It is the precursor to attack maybe in your mind? I'm sure you could train a dog to act like that by simply not knowing how to use a leash and standard collar.


My point is those behaviors can be simple a miss use of the leash creating aggression eventually. Then the dog is reacting aggressively and you think it is his breeding or lack of it.
I know this. It was Chip that was missing that point. Why do you keep directing this to me? Really, how many times must I repeat this? Go tell Chip, he was the one misunderstanding.

You said recently that you "can't be dealing with that crap" when i asked you why you didn't counter condition your aggressive dog.

You are simply not comfortable with aggression, and so your emotional reaction to it, but it is intrinsic to dogs of all breeds, as it is a part of there genetic makeup. We don't see canine teeth evolving into grazing teeth for example. And so there is a portion of the dogs mind with built in aggression to go with the reality of being a predator.
I love appropriately aggressive dogs or I would not own workingline GSDs. What a silly comment. I despise useless animal to animal aggression. It serves no purpose. I get nothing out of owning a dog that can kill somebody else's dog. What a silly excuse for overcompensating for inadequacies.

Regarding my dog aggressive dog, I don't believe in rehab or cures. Yes, I could have put stronger training on him but what for? The places I would have taken him are full of dogs and I don't have any God given right to use other people's dogs as bait animals should mine have broken training. It is called respect for other people and their pets. Something that seems to elude your comprehension.
 

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Regarding my dog aggressive dog, I don't believe in rehab or cures. Yes, I could have put stronger training on him but what for? The places I would have taken him are full of dogs and I don't have any God given right to use other people's dogs as bait animals should mine have broken training.
Would the place which is full of dogs be a dog park by any chance?

Whats wrong with just training a dog to be non aggressive on leash and not let him off it. Dog still gets to go out. Dog doesn't have to be a threat to any pet, with good handling.

Bit of training might pay off.

Yes, I could have put stronger training on him but what for?
To give the dog a chance. You don't know until you try, employ a trainer, but if you think something is unfix-able then it'll probably never change.


It is called respect for other people and their pets. Something that seems to elude your comprehension.
I'm all for respect for dogs and their true nature and making sure they are not a threat to anyone or there pet. Maybe it is my comprehension on your theories on dog behavior that is lacking.
 

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Would the place which is full of dogs be a dog park by any chance?
Actually, no, they did not have dog parks / doggie day care back then that I was aware of.

Whats wrong with just training a dog to be non aggressive on leash and not let him off it. Dog still gets to go out. Dog doesn't have to be a threat to any pet, with good handling.

Bit of training might pay off.
I don't believe that you can teach a dog that is genetically aggressive to be non aggressive. If you had followed the other thread, you would have read where without continued lifetime reinforcement, genetically DA dogs will regress. To me, that denotes a lifetime of management and control, not a "cure".

Why leash a dog and take him out? Why not just let him loose in a fenced backyard? I like to enjoy my walks. I want my dogs to enjoy walking too. I don't believe leash walking is exercise, nor do I believe that dogs enjoy it all that much. Beats sitting home to them, but certainly no fun. I prefer my dogs to perform agility, swimming, tracking, lure coursing and other fun venues in the playground provided by mother nature, can't do that on a leash. I would rather leave the dog at home rather than tempt it with all these fun things to do but refuse to allow him to do them. I find that rather cruel.

To give the dog a chance. You don't know until you try, employ a trainer, but if you think something is unfix-able then it'll probably never change.
That dog died in the early 80s, the point is moot.


I'm all for respect for dogs and their true nature and making sure they are not a threat to anyone or there pet. Maybe it is my comprehension on your theories on dog behavior that is lacking.
A civil post! What did you do with MadLab? :grin2:
 

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I want to jump in and clear up some confusion re: the law. I am not sure where you are, and I am only licensed in CA and Idaho, so if you are somewhere else the law might be different. First, you are not liable even if she says your dog bit her. The aspects of the event speak for itself as to the logic of what happened. Let me explain.

If she lies and says that her dog was leashed and that your dog attacked hers first. The evidence shows different. Her dog had no bite marks, yours did. Your dog was bitten in the back of its rear legs, suggesting that her dog came from behind. She would have to explain why her dog on a leash was able to approach your dog three times. Trust me not all judges are big dummies. In fact, I say take her to Judge Judy (I am serious) she yells at irresponsible owners all the time and she can tell from the evidence that they are lying.

All the legal mumbo jumbo aside. Don't let her get away with this. Next time the next dog owner might not be so lucky. It is doubtful that she will learn from this incident unless there is some consequence to her, such as pay the vet bill or fine from AC.
 

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I want to jump in and clear up some confusion re: the law. I am not sure where you are, and I am only licensed in CA and Idaho, so if you are somewhere else the law might be different. First, you are not liable even if she says your dog bit her. The aspects of the event speak for itself as to the logic of what happened. Let me explain.
Hi Cheyanna; I was wondering what might happen if this woman had reported that it was not her dog that bit her but Voodoo's dog when she grabbed her own.

Also, If this scenario were a little different in that a bystander intervened in separating the dogs and was bitten by either dog - do the courts take that as a bite period or do they understand that the bystander just did the equivalent of putting his hand between a chainsaw and wood chipper and took his own chances so there would be a no fault for injuries? Thanks and Hi from Coeur d' Alene!
 

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Discussion Starter #132
Good news!

My trainer let me come and sit in with a beginners obedience class this evening, That had a few small fluffy doodle type dogs.

I am glad to say that Mako was unfazed by them. He worked like a champ.

I wasnt even charged for the session! Mako earned his keep though. He was the demo dog for the evening as the trainer's bitch is in heat.

I kinda think enjoyed being the center of attention like that. Such a ham lol.
 

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I want to jump in and clear up some confusion re: the law. I am not sure where you are, and I am only licensed in CA and Idaho, so if you are somewhere else the law might be different. First, you are not liable even if she says your dog bit her. The aspects of the event speak for itself as to the logic of what happened. Let me explain.

If she lies and says that her dog was leashed and that your dog attacked hers first. The evidence shows different. Her dog had no bite marks, yours did. Your dog was bitten in the back of its rear legs, suggesting that her dog came from behind. She would have to explain why her dog on a leash was able to approach your dog three times. Trust me not all judges are big dummies. In fact, I say take her to Judge Judy (I am serious) she yells at irresponsible owners all the time and she can tell from the evidence that they are lying.

All the legal mumbo jumbo aside. Don't let her get away with this. Next time the next dog owner might not be so lucky. It is doubtful that she will learn from this incident unless there is some consequence to her, such as pay the vet bill or fine from AC.
Here is a recent incident in the news where a dog got attacked but the owner of the attacker lied and said her daughter, who was walking the dog, got bit.

Pit bull mix attacks elderly dog; wounded dog accused of attack | WNWO
 

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It sounds like the police got it right, probably because there was a child involved. It sounds like Animal Control got it wrong, and quarantined he dog on the word of the one owner. I'm sorry, but I just cannot gamble my dog's life on the premise that the law will come out right in the end. They are not necessarily going to put a lot of resources in a dog-dog-owner-owner conflict, and if they get it wrong...

Yep, I will do my utmost to avoid any conflict whatsoever. Yep, my plan is to take the bite for my dog if it is unavoidable. And yep, if the worst happens, I might let it go rather than make a federal case out of it, because, well, once the other guy is facing litigation, there is always the chance that it will get pretty ugly. And, lastly, who has time and energy for that. It take a lot out of you, and that time, energy, frustration can all be put to something better, and we can move on much quicker if we are not bogged down by an overshadowing court appearance.
 
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