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Roach back- never heard of that- thanks! I learn more and more of the variations of these dogs from you guys and my Max.
 

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Before the assumptions start, note this is a sable - most likely working line :)

He has a lot of rear angulation, a shorter front arm, and flat to normal withers - all this combined gives his back a curve when he is bunched up because the front is down lower than the back - I see this in working dogs as they tend to have fronts that drop down because of flatter withers and short arms. He is a puppy and at an awkward stage - he will grow into himself, but will likely always go down in the front because of the short arm and withers.
 

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that was a relaxed, knowledgeable response.

Before the assumptions start, note this is a sable - most likely working line :)

He has a lot of rear angulation, a shorter front arm, and flat to normal withers - all this combined gives his back a curve when he is bunched up because the front is down lower than the back - I see this in working dogs as they tend to have fronts that drop down because of flatter withers and short arms. He is a puppy and at an awkward stage - he will grow into himself, but will likely always go down in the front because of the short arm and withers.
wow, relax.
 

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x11: lot of verbiage - little substance. Here was my reasoning: arched back -> roach back -> WGSL - so I pointed out something not everyone will catch. Went on to explain the structural reasons as to why, but you probably knew all that already :)

LauraJav: No that won't cause any issues - his reach might be restricted slightly in the front, but he will be fine to play, run, and be a fantastic companion. Funny you say T-rex because I have seen much much more extreme examples than Max :)
He isn't a mess at all - he is a very nice dog and those structural points are characteristic of certain lines.
 

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I see the same, front and back look like they belong to two different dogs. Back is "roached" (the wither is not the highest point). It's a bad picture (bad angle) and the dog is at an age where it's not really fair to judge. I'd be more concerned about movement, like if the dog is really cowhocked, down on the hocks or pasterns, and/or really loose (floppy) but we can't see that in a photo.
 

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WGSL is West German Showline - some people will label these lines as "roach backed".

True roach back is when there is a point on the back that is higher than the wither. I would be interested to see your dog stacked properly - he will probably not have a roach or arch - maybe a dip as his withers transition into the back. The good thing is he is a coatie - his full coat will hide some little things that would stick out more on a dog with a tight coat.
 

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My dog is a working line and he has a curved spine. It is the one trait that I am the most critical of him. You can see pictures of him in this thread that posted today;
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/critique-my-dog/259146-ruger-2-years-old.html

He is very athletic though and it doesn't seam to affect his ability to do anything. I am going to attempt an endurance test (the IPO AD) with him next week. We shall see then how he holds up. (and how I hold up for that matter :))
 

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Not sure what lines her pup is - I thought ASL from an older post in Dec - "Janry" is breeder? And he is a pup at what is a gangly age for some.

Anyway-I know there are some other threads on pain in front, and the pasterns sure look down. It would be good to get some side shots with the dog not eating. And maybe oriented properly? Hard to look sideways at a photo.

Just out of curiousity - what is he eating? I have read here that too high protein can drop the pasterns.
 

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My dog is a working line and he has a curved spine. It is the one trait that I am the most critical of him. You can see pictures of him in this thread that posted today;
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/critique-my-dog/259146-ruger-2-years-old.html

He is very athletic though and it doesn't seam to affect his ability to do anything. I am going to attempt an endurance test (the IPO AD) with him next week. We shall see then how he holds up. (and how I hold up for that matter :))
robk: you are being a little more severe on your boy than you should be. The pictures are really not doing him any justice - I only used the last pic as it is the nearest to correct. He is only 2 and will continue to fill out and mature. He has a nice dark mask, dark eyes, good pigment, nice color. He has moderate bone, and could use more substance. Could use a little more masculinity, but he is still maturing. Are you hiking or swimming? A month or so beforehand, hike him uphill as much as you can and up his food to build up his chest, forehand, and rear.

He is splaying out a little in front so make sure he gets stacked with his feet in. You must groom his topline before the show - let me know when and where you plan to show him, if I am there, I will groom him - if not, I will find someone and we will ask them to groom him beforehand. Take an undercoat rake with single row and remove some of the body in the hair of the withers - must use some spray and moderate out that dip from his withers to back. It occurs in a lot of working dogs - is that tuft of hair at the base of his neck thick? Thinning it out and grooming properly can showcase his topline better.

Looks to have a nice firm back, but his croup is short, flat, and high - tailset also high. Pretty nice angulation in the rear, needs more front angulation, upper arm needs to be a little longer, shoulder will likely be a little restricted (not sure, need to see him move - might also be a little loose in the rear because of all that angulation so make sure to hike him uphill lots and have him pull for you as you call him). His rear angulation will be a lot for his front to handle so practice some if you can - some of these working dogs with lot of drive will push into the ground and it makes them look down in front even worse. Train to get his head up and looking for you so we can help his withers and front look the best we can. Good expression and nice dog. Congrats!

Get him used to checking teeth and testicles - with show training, a good handler, conditioning, and grooming - he could try for a SG.
 
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