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Discussion Starter #1
My uncle, who also has a GSD uses one on his dog on occasion. We were walking one day and I was struggling to teach Dakota, my 8month old white GSD, to heal with just a regular collar. He allowed me to use his pinch collar for the remainder of the walk and I had to give it one stern tug and gave a follow up command. After that, I only ha to do light tugs of she put some tension on the lead. I was also using a traffic lead, I think it's called. It's like a foot or so long and is looped on the handlers end to wrap around the wrist. Her behavior improved 10 fold on that walk alone. I proceeded to buy myself one and have been working with her on it for a week or so. I am now able to walk with the lead completely loose and I even took the lead off with the pinch collar still on and was able to heel her with just a shhhhh follow up command if she got to far forward. My hopes are that this behavior will transfer to her normal collar but I've tried it and she behaves totally different on it. But my question is, is this collar considered bad or evil? And also am I using it properly?


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i taught my dog to heel on either side with or without a leash
usuing a flat collar and a leash.
 

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The collar is neither good nor evil, it is a tool, and it can be used appropriately or abused.

For you, it is working great, and you are using it exactly as it was intended. Good for you!

People are put off by how the collar looks but try it on around your thigh, or your arm, or even around your own neck - and give it a pull and a jerk - it does NOT pinch or cause sharp pain. You will find that the prongs spread the pressure out evenly, and all you feel is a squeeze.

We often refer to the prong collar with negative terms like "pinch collar" and "correction collar", when in reality, it should be called a "communication collar". The dogs get a clear message that they understand and can properly process what you, the person holding the leash, is expecting and wanting - there is no negative association with the collar to the dogs - they are happy to wear it, and most dogs get all excited when they see the collar come out, they associate it with walks and activities, not with corrections.
 

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i taught my dog to heel on either side with or without a leash
usuing a flat collar and a leash.
I taught my dog to use the toilet and flush every time.

She still does play with the toilet paper too much though.
 

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We can teach loose leash walking without a prong/pinch collar, but if it is working for you, keep using it. It is much better to get out there and walk your dog under control, than to fight with the dog and give up.

Since it is not transferring yet to a different collar, I would spend 75% of the walk on the prong collar, and then leave the prong on, and switch your lead to the flat collar. Give it a little time, and if the pulling starts, switch back to the prong. Do this on every walk and try to increase the time that you don't need the prong.
 

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You have to know how to use it correctly, place it on the neck correctly and chose the correct size prongs for your application. The collar should fit snuggly, high on the neck, just below the dogs ears. My guess is that you don't need very heavy guage prongs. There should not be constant tension on the collar/leash. You give a quick, sharp correction and the leash should go slack. With a dog forging while walking, simple reverse the direction you are walking in when the dog forges and give a sharp correction as you swith direction. Also, connect the leash to both rings unless you have a very stubborn, handler hard dog, and then connect the leash to the live ring.
 

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I taught my dog to use the toilet and flush every time.

She still does play with the toilet paper too much though.
:laugh:

Oh my gosh that made me laugh! lol

To the OP, sounds like you are using it correctly. There is a good Leerburg video of how to properly fit a prong, which is up high on the neck, although I find it still slips down on me. Don't nag, just a quick correction and loose leash.

They are only as unkind as the hands wielding them. And whoever said it's the name or look that most people object to is so right. I ride horses and there's something called a crank noseband that people think is so awful, but fitted correctly (ie NOT cranked) they are actually more comfortable for the horse.

Take the 'gentle leader' for example. The name makes it sound wonderful, but my dog hates it with violence, and my vet told me they see a lot of eye/neck injuries and they tend to rub. Yet my dog takes no issue with wearing a prong. So what is more inhumane? I think if you ask my dog, she'd take the prong over the gentle leader.

But then again, if you asked my dog, she'd say no collar and let me run amok with my ball. :wub:
 

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Lulu is 9 months old and LOVES to pull. She would be gasping and sounded really horrible with a flat collar so I started using the prong for walks.

My daughter (10 years old) objected to me using the prong on Lulu. This opinion was only because it looked scary or painful. I put the prong on her arm and asked her if it hurt and she said no, I then asked her to pull slightly and did it hurt, she said no but it wasnt the most comfortable thing she has ever felt... I told her that was the point. Lulu has to listen to me when we are out and about. I have a 4 year old son and 10 year old girl plus a 9 month old German Shepherd who could pull me around at will. I have to have control over her at all times. Its just not safe other wise. I wouldnt be able to take her out and socialize her. Personally I think that would be worse than using the prong.

Its no replacement for training but it does work while the pup is young and figuring out that they cant run a muck.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I leave her flat collar on as well already so I will try to switch on up on her a random on our walks, but honestly I've tried this and I feel as though she needs more time on it. I can literally put it in her and sense that her behavior has changed. With her flat collar I feel as though I have no control over her, and I am not a small guy. I've even tried a gentle leader, and while there is some notion of control, when compared to a prong, the GL doesn't even come close. I refuse to use a choker on her as I view it as ineffective and dangerous. My wife swears by it and uses it on our 5 year old King Charles. The gentle leader ends up irritating me more than the benefit I feel using it. She always paws at it and still pulls. Slightly less than a prong though. This girl is hard headed and very stubborn. But she does learn quick. The prong is by far the best thing I've had the chance to use. It seems as though she likes it as well. She is less stressed while walking. And much more confident because of the praise she gets for good behavior. I have been able to teach her the command "stop" for use at intersections and also have managed to get her to master sitting at said intersections when I stop without a command being given. She also stays in a sit until I say heel. If I were still using the flat collar I feel like I'd still be trying to teach "heel" realize that this progress has been made over a weeks time. I will recommend this collar to anyone with a stubborn dog. Thanks guys for all the advice.


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i'm using one too. works nice for me on walks. not real help with reactivity to dogs though. makes my boy more crazy.
 

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Restrictive collars exist for people who have a weak contact with their dogs, so, you have put youself to loosers'list already. All leashes and collars are only temporary tools! Your dog knows the command, but she pulls because her attention is not with you. Try walking without any leash or collar in a safe area what available with a treat in your closed hand pressed to your chest. Use two commands "Heel!" and "Walk!" sending her forward and recalling repeatedly. Train her for distraction, recall her and ask her to heel in moments when she doesn't want to. More freedom you give them - more obedient they become.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I understand that this is a training aid and meant to be temporary. I stated in my first post that I want this behavior to transfer to her flat collar and also have stated that I have tried to switch to the flat to no avail. She has however heeled without a lead but still had the prong on. My hopes are to get this same behavior with her flat and even without a lead. I'm assuming that "walk" is for her to walk ahead and use "heel" to recall her back to my side? If so, should I just let her walk ahead of me and start saying walk and praising her then begin to get her ton understand that that is what I want? I can say "ok" and she will run off and play with my uncle's gsd. I hope that she won't get that confused as a release to run off and play. Any advice on how to work on that?


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Restrictive collars exist for people who have a weak contact with their dogs, so, you have put youself to loosers'list already. All leashes and collars are only temporary tools! Your dog knows the command, but she pulls because her attention is not with you. Try walking without any leash or collar in a safe area what available with a treat in your closed hand pressed to your chest. Use two commands "Heel!" and "Walk!" sending her forward and recalling repeatedly. Train her for distraction, recall her and ask her to heel in moments when she doesn't want to. More freedom you give them - more obedient they become.
Oh boy, what to say.... I once had a rescue dog, half Doberman, half something else that we think included Rhodesian Ridgeback. She lived the first two years of her life on a chain. Her neck was dead to any collar correction except a pinch. And thanks to the possible sighthound, trusting her of leash was out of the question. If she saw something she wanted to chase, she was gone. However, as for "having a weak contact" with her, well, somehow, she never got that memo. She thought I hung the moon.
 

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I guess I get David's point. If you teach your dog well you shouldn't have a need for prong. But for most of us pet owners is not just black and white. We (me) make mistakes, may not know best teaching methods and sometimes struggle, even with classes and trainers. So we may use tools that experience owners do not need.
 

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I guess I get David's point. If you teach your dog well you shouldn't have a need for prong. But for most of us pet owners is not just black and white. We (me) make mistakes, may not know best teaching methods and sometimes struggle, even with classes and trainers. So we may use tools that experience owners do not need.
It also depends on the dog - Gryff is very pack-oriented, lives to please me, careful not to rock the boat, thinks before he acts, neutral with other dogs. He spends his life on a flat collar, and when safe, off leash.

Keeta . . . well, she's another story all together. Has come a loooooong way since I have had her, but all I can say is: Thank goodness for the prong!
 

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It also depends on the dog - Gryff is very pack-oriented, lives to please me, careful not to rock the boat, thinks before he acts, neutral with other dogs. He spends his life on a flat collar, and when safe, off leash.

Keeta . . . well, she's another story all together. Has come a loooooong way since I have had her, but all I can say is: Thank goodness for the prong!
Absolutely

Jazzy is my Gryff, I could walk her down a busy street without a leash easy (not that I do!)

Delgado is my Keeta, he's been hard headed from the start and needed a much firmer hand. He respects me, that's for sure, but it was earned and not given lightly :) I never needed to physically beat him, but it was a mental battle that went on for months before he gave up and even more every once in a while he'll test it again just to keep me on my toes ;)


It doesn't matter what you use, flat collars, ecollars, prong, choke, martengale, harness, etc there is NO once size fits all. There are dogs like Jazzy who I can correct with a snap of my finger in the air, and there are dogs like Delgado who need a reminder here and there who's in charge. One isn't better then the other, it's just the way they are.
 

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I'm going to say that while David's dogs may be incredibly obedient, David himself perhaps has flunked charm school. :eek:

"Loser's list" -- (not looser) offensive.

I use one. I've used it for every adult dog I've owned. I'm 5'3" and I like big dogs. Using it correctly is fine. I use it often at first and then alternate leads and use it to re-school when necessary. I'm not on the loser's list and neither are you.
 
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