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Discussion Starter #1
I spoke to a local vet yesterday but I need to do my own research and I would like to get some input from forum members. I have a few questions.

I must get Shadow vaccinated for rabies, and I need to know the safest way to proceed. Titers are not acceptable apparently. Without the vaccine apparently the law states that at AC's discretion she could be euthanized rather then quarantined so I have no wiggle room here at all. I was banking on tittering.
Lepto vaccine was strongly recommended for the very simple reason that it is prevalent in the area and by the time it is diagnosed kidney damage is almost certain.
He recommended Advantix for fleas and ticks as it also helps with flies and mosquitoes apparently. Someone else recommended Bravecto. I know nothing about either so any input would be appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Is this for a puppy, or an adult? And what is the age? What are your concerns with regards to the vaccinations?

Shadow is 8 years old and has a laundry list of health issues. She has not been vaccinated since she was 6 months old due to a nasty reaction, likely to the rabies and certainly caused by giving all at once.


She has never been on flea or tick prevention as it was not needed.
 

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Advantix doesn't work anymore in some areas. I got a flea infestation in FL while using Advantix. When we moved here, I was finding engorged ticks regularly while applying Advantix every 3 weeks. Vectra 3d works a little better.

I hear Bravecto works well and I have a boarder who uses it and I have never found a living tick on her. I have found tiny dead ones, it appears to effectively kill them as soon as they bite. However, I also know that dog like mine had to be treated for Anaplasmosis so nothing is perfect.

I am using seresto collars...they aren't 100% either.

Do the vaccines separately...
 

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I would do the rabies and lepto separate. Advantix works very well in my area. Used advantage now advantix for over 20 years and my mom had to no issues with it at all. It is also great keeping mosquitoes to help prevent heartworm. We have feral cats that I’m sure are flea infested and roam in the property and to s of wildlife - deer, fox wild turkeys that visit. Frontline stopped working for us so glad they came out with advantix - ask people who live your area it seems to be dependAnt upon certain regions which work.
 

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Separate the vaccinations. I do
Core vaccines : Distemper/parvo
Lepto - separately if needed in your area. This is the one most dogs will react to.
Rabies - separated by 2 weeks.

If Shadow had a lepto vaccine, that is probably the one that caused the reaction. It causes reactions in small dogs and in puppies.
 

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I like Bravecto where I live. Advantix II did nothing, and Seresto collars didn't work for me either. I actually returned them for a refund. Vet recommended Simpartica, as it is supposed to kill the ticks faster? I haven't tried it yet. With this snow I hope the ticks are off to wherever they spend the winter.

If you need to give rabies, make sure the vet knows about the reaction, maybe pre-dose with Benedryl? (ask the vet).

Lepto, you can by at Tractor Supply and give yourself on your own schedule. That's what I do.

I give all vaccines except rabies myself. The rabies must be given "under supervision" of a vet. I go to a walk in clinice because it saves me at least $50, but if you are concerned about a reaction, then get it done at a vet, and stick around for a few hours, if you can, to make sure the adverse reaction can be dealt with if needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Advantix doesn't work anymore in some areas. I got a flea infestation in FL while using Advantix. When we moved here, I was finding engorged ticks regularly while applying Advantix every 3 weeks. Vectra 3d works a little better.

I hear Bravecto works well and I have a boarder who uses it and I have never found a living tick on her. I have found tiny dead ones, it appears to effectively kill them as soon as they bite. However, I also know that dog like mine had to be treated for Anaplasmosis so nothing is perfect.

I am using seresto collars...they aren't 100% either.

Do the vaccines separately...
I like the idea of a collar for the very simple reason that if she has a reaction to it I can simply remove the collar, but I keep getting told they don't work!

I would do the rabies and lepto separate. Advantix works very well in my area. Used advantage now advantix for over 20 years and my mom had to no issues with it at all. It is also great keeping mosquitoes to help prevent heartworm.
We have no issues with heartworm here, and seemingly not really in most parts of Canada. However I have been warned that mosquitoes and black flies are brutal in this area so anything that deters them would be a bonus.

Any vaccines will definitely be given separately. I will never make that mistake again.
 

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Specifically regarding the Rabies.... Are you using the same veterinarian that gave her the initial vaccination with the issue? If yes, I am sure this is documented - what is your vets take on the risk factors for her being vaccinated again? Were other vaccinations given at that time?



If it is not the same vet, do they have all of her records, so that they can properly evaluate her individual situation?



If there was a serious problem at the initial vaccination, I would hesitate to vaccinate again (depending on the severity of what happened), if it would cause risk to her life. That being said, Rabies is no joke... and accidents happen in places we never expect.
 

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I would ask more people about titers. It depends on who you talk to it appears. I have a guy that I run into all the time on our walks. He has a lab with a ton of medical issues. I told him to titer and stop vaxing. He said he called and the city won't accept titers. I thought they changed the laws recently, so I called in and talked to someone else. They said, no problem!

Mine had an allergic reaction like yours from her booster shot. I really wanted to titer first, but the vet kept pushing until I gave in. I titered her a few weeks later and she was fully covered, so I didn't have to do her next booster. I never went back to that vet.

From the reading I have done, and the experience I have had over the years just doing titers, antibodies don't just go away. I have never had a titer come back low. They have always been well above what was needed to protect the animal.

If yours is already having problems, I would fight it until I found a solution.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Separate the vaccinations. I do
Core vaccines : Distemper/parvo
Lepto - separately if needed in your area. This is the one most dogs will react to.
Rabies - separated by 2 weeks.

If Shadow had a lepto vaccine, that is probably the one that caused the reaction. It causes reactions in small dogs and in puppies.
Interesting.

I was told that her reaction was almost certainly caused by the rabies. We went through several weeks/months of her growling and snapping at shadows, lunging at things that weren't there, inability to visually identify objects, fear of lights/reflections. At one point we thought she was going blind. The reaction seems to have started on a small scale with the second puppy vacs but blew up following her rabies/6 month puppy shot. No one ever mentioned the lepto vaccine as suspect.
 

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Who told you that it was the rabies? Or that it was vaccine related vs genetic nerviness?

Lepto has a high rate of reactions. My vet will not give it to small dogs or puppies. The reaction is typically anaphylactic shock.
 

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I would ask more people about titers. It depends on who you talk to it appears. I have a guy that I run into all the time on our walks. He has a lab with a ton of medical issues. I told him to titer and stop vaxing. He said he called and the city won't accept titers. I thought they changed the laws recently, so I called in and talked to someone else. They said, no problem!

Mine had an allergic reaction like yours from her booster shot. I really wanted to titer first, but the vet kept pushing until I gave in. I titered her a few weeks later and she was fully covered, so I didn't have to do her next booster. I never went back to that vet.

From the reading I have done, and the experience I have had over the years just doing titers, antibodies don't just go away. I have never had a titer come back low. They have always been well above what was needed to protect the animal.

If yours is already having problems, I would fight it until I found a solution.

Titers DO come back low or no coverage. My older dog came back with zero for distemper/parvo, and this is after being vaccinated regularly most of her life. I did titer and not vax for a few years when she was young. So I know she's not one who just doesn't get coverage from vaccines. Then she was vaccinated regularly for like 8 or 9 years and I titered her last year thinking no way she would need anything but she had nothing for distemper/parvo.

My 3 1/2 year old dog I titered last year and his coverage was good for distemper parvo. This year Parvo good but distemper low, right on the line of re-vaccinate.

And these titers have been sent out to more than one place so I know it's not just one lab. Hers went to hemopet and his went to Cornell I think, but i'm not positive.
 

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Titers DO come back low or no coverage. My older dog came back with zero for distemper/parvo, and this is after being vaccinated regularly most of her life. I did titer and not vax for a few years when she was young. So I know she's not one who just doesn't get coverage from vaccines. Then she was vaccinated regularly for like 8 or 9 years and I titered her last year thinking no way she would need anything but she had nothing for distemper/parvo.

My 3 1/2 year old dog I titered last year and his coverage was good for distemper parvo. This year Parvo good but distemper low, right on the line of re-vaccinate.

And these titers have been sent out to more than one place so I know it's not just one lab. Hers went to hemopet and his went to Cornell I think, but i'm not positive.

I have read of dogs that can not produce immunity to rabies. It's a genetic thing. I wish I could remember where I read that. Seger had nothing for Parvo when I titered at 1 year. I kept thinking it was distemper that happened with but I checked the paperwork last week. Parvo....and I hauled him all over the country side training with zero immunity for Parvo.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Who told you that it was the rabies? Or that it was vaccine related vs genetic nerviness?

Lepto has a high rate of reactions. My vet will not give it to small dogs or puppies. The reaction is typically anaphylactic shock.
She was treated by a holistic vet following the onset of symptoms. At 6 weeks old Shadow was a totally normal puppy, conquer the world take no prisoners attitude. Following her last vacs we saw a change with about a day. We know she had some fear issues, but the change was sudden and dramatic. Within days she was nearly unmanageable and air snapping at a shadow on the wall goes beyond genetic nerviness.


An extremely small percentage of dogs have been known to display symptoms like this following rabies vacs. The suspicion I believe was bad vaccines, and it is not something anyone is ever warned about. I had to really dig to find any info that was credible.
 

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I have read of dogs that can not produce immunity to rabies. It's a genetic thing. I wish I could remember where I read that. Seger had nothing for Parvo when I titered at 1 year. I kept thinking it was distemper that happened with but I checked the paperwork last week. Parvo....and I hauled him all over the country side training with zero immunity for Parvo.
I've never titered for rabies. I just don't mess around with that one. I do whatever the law says I should do, because I need it for dog licenses and running a dog business I am no risking my dogs not following the rules.

But if dogs couldn't produce immunity to rabies then the vaccine would not work, and obviously it does?
 

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But if dogs couldn't produce immunity to rabies then the vaccine would not work, and obviously it does?
No. It doesn't work. The dog can not produce an immunity to rabies no matter how many times it's vaccinated.

Imagine that, dogs that are not immune to rabies but can't produce an immunity thru vaccination. That's like the canine version of the Walking Dead.
 

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Since Baron had a mild reaction (just fatigue and muscle soreness) when he was a puppy and he got his rabies vaccine, this year before it was time for his vaccines, I did research any preventive measures. I did give him the homeopathic remedy Lyssinum 30C as discussed here: https://www.elixirs.com/products.cfm?productcode=S94W. I also give him one for the DAPP/parvo https://www.elixirs.com/products.cfm?productcode=P2. He had no reactions this time. So that maybe something you may want to consider. Homeopathic remedies have no side affects, so it can't hurt to try it.
 

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The risk with titers for rabies is that this is a human health disease, and is always deadly, and unlike distemper or parvo is regulated very strongly by some powerful agencies. I don't know the rules in Canada, but unless I had some sort of signed document stating titers are acceptable, from an official individual, I would not take any chances. Catastrophe is very possible, through no fault of the dog or human.
 
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