[Dainerra]

There was just a segment on a woman who kept a pack of 9 wolf-dogs in her backyard in a pen. They eventually killed her, but guess that's kind of obvious from the title of the show.

ETA I shouldn't post before my brain kicks in. My question was: They had a woman saying that it's not true that crossing wolves with dogs makes a good pet. I know that is true, but she also said that you see it in all cross-breeds. That if you have a dog that is a mix of say, retriever and working breeds that the dog will be confused and have behavior problems. I've never heard of anything like that and just doesn't make sense.

 

[Dainerra]

the woman who said that was the Executive Director of Wildlife Science Center. She just said "If she was a female wolf, the second one of them made a dominant move she would have grabbed that animal, thrown him to the ground and bitten his nose. Since she didn't, that proves that she didn't know anything about the behaviors of these animals" That isn't an exact quote, but close enough - I can't type that fast.
But a scientist saying that wolves do alpha rolls?
It's very sad, they keep showing all the dead animals stacked in a pile/int he back of a truck. Another case of the animals paying the price for human stupidity.

 

[Dainerra]

I know that wolves can alpha roll, but the advice that the woman should have done it to her wolf dog?? she was basically saying that the woman would have been perfectly safe if she had only rolled the hybrids.
I see that I said it wrong in my post... again, shouldn't post before my brain is engaged. There are very few instances where wolves need to do rolls in a stable pack.

The real world of a wolf pack is an entirely different universe than a pack of 9 hybrids penned in a suburban backyard. A human is naturally weaker than a canine, esp a pack of them. Suggesting that she alpha-roll a dominate hybrid in the middle of the pack seems completely asinine.

 

[Dainerra]

I was just floored, and it wasn't just a NyQuil haze.. I can't imagine anyone who knows ANY dog behavior to go into a pen containing nine canines (any type) that have lived as a pack and alpha roll one of them. Even people who believe that a daily roll is important to keeping your dog in his place have never said go into a pack and roll the first dog that gets pushy. Any pack of carnivores will fight to protect one of their own. As soon as she was on the ground the pack drive would have taken over and that would be the end. Obviously, that is the outcome in this story as well.

Guesstimating from the size they looked in the pics, I'd say that they weighed in at 50 lbs easily. The "alpha dog" looked maybe 80? I mentioned the woman's title since they put her forward as an expert on the behavior of wolves. I hope that no one decides to follow her advice.

Note: I'm not wanting a pro/con debate on alpha rolls. I do debate the sanity of wading into a pack and trying to gain/keep control of a pack in that manner. From the things said by the owner's friends, she never tried to be "in charge," proudly pointing out which dog was the Alpha of the pack. It seems that she believed that they would accept her into the family as another submissive female and that she could live within the pack.
If that is the case, 1) she is crazy and 2) the idea that she roll the alpha hybrid is even crazier. She would be no match for him physically and her trying to suddenly push her way would result in a fight that she could never hope to win. Not to mention that it would be only a matter of time before the rest of the pack joined in. There was also evidence that in the time leading up to her death that she had become afraid of the pack. Yet another ingredient in the disaster recipe.

On the "cross breeds are confused" notes, I actually laughed out loud. Maybe it was the NyQuil, but I had an image of a GSD/Husky cross pacing in circles "Do I want to herd? Do I want to run? Am I a husky? Am I a shepherd?" Perhaps laying on the couch talking about his identity issues and how, as a puppy, he never fit in with the other dogs at the park....
I CAN see a bit where there could be more conflict in a dog/wolf hybrid. The natural instincts of a wolf would be more fearful of humans, esp if the dam was a higher content or otherwise unnervy, while the dog side would have a natural instinct to be more trusting of humans. It's not entirely nature, but those basic fears are partially genetic and so opposite that it could make for a more skittish dog, not necessarily "confused"

So, in the end, I don't think it matters really if the animals were wolf-hybrids or mixes of the northern breeds. They had lived their entire lives as a pack, though with some human interaction. They were allowed to make their own rules and develop their own community. When it came to the end, they reacted as a pack - whether they viewed her as a human outsider or as another canine who tried to take over the pack is a moot point.

 

[Dainerra]

I was picturing the dog on R. Lee Emory's therapist couch. lol
NyQuil, a fever, and no sleep can give some vivid imagery, I tell ya that

 

[Dainerra]

I'm waiting for this to happen to my neighbor 4 houses down from me...she breeds malamute/timber crosses....she's only knee high to a grasshopppers butt and 100 pounds soaking wet and does this all by herself.

ok, I'm going to remember that phrase! I love it!!!