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WSPA TV 7 convered this substantially. A TIED UP Pit Bull (notice CAPS in TIED UP...you could change dog name to any large dog) broke lose and mauled some family memebers. I expect these folks might be very lower class folks who don't take care of their animals

http://www.wspa.com/midatlantic/spa/home.html

There's a poll about a Pit Bull Ban. What's next?

Link to Tony Stewart.....

http://www.cityofandersonsc.com/city_council/meet_your_councilmembers/tony_stewart.html


He had a comment about Chihuahuas never doing this........


When the article had started ... the dog tied up with a rope broke the rope.....

YUP.





Powell
 

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What? An idiotic comment from a local politician?

How so very believable!

If we delayed registration until 12 mos to insure health and temperment, and required at least CGC's to obtain licenses, all the BSL BS would simply disappear, as the gene pool of all breeds of canines would get cleaned up,as would the glut of irresponsible human "owners"!!!
 

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Let's keep class out of it, please. Just say "low-life's." Lower class people may be all kinds of people and many of them do a great job with their critters.

Trailer Trash here takes a bit of offense to that. While I do not consider myself as lower-class, many people might.

Remember that state senators have been known to drop pregnant bitches at shelters and presidential candidates have been known to tour around with the dog in a cage on the roof of the car. "Folks who do not take care of their animals" come from all walks of life.
 

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In Oakland County,MI. they swing by and count dogs & licenses.
If you don't get a license before June, they cost quite a bit more.

Dunno if it would make any difference, but you are probably right.
There's no license to breed children based upon anything, and we can't get folks to be responsible for their real kids, so how could we ever expect them to be responsible for their canines.

We'll just wait, and let the politicians & lawyers legislate more BSL until they knock on our doors and say it's our dog's turn to die. But that ankle munching Chihuahua will be safe, cuz he'll been given special dispensation due to the fewer number of stitches he'll cause.

That'll be better than trying to make some saner decisions before then, eh?

The best thing we got going for our favorite breed is they are cop dogs. That'll probably make them last to be rounded up.
 

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Thank you selzer, for your comments about not generalizing. I took a little offense to the "lower class folks" thing, although I don't think that might have been what the OP meant. My family was always "lower class" and we always took well care of our animals, even when money was tight. Even now, Kisses gets the upmost care, better than I get myself sometimes. I could tell you horror stories of the lady who lived down from me when I was child (She was well respected because she had $$) who dumped a couple of dead dogs in the goatfield we used to play in. Like selzer said "Folks who do not take care of their animals" come from all walks of life."

Back on topic, that comment about chihuahua's never doing something like this just shows how ignorant this guy is. Plus, it has been proven that animals tied for even short lengths of time develop aggressive tendencies. On top of that, do we know what the family members were doing at the time of the attack? Did he attack a family walking by, or a group of kids taunting him because he was in a vulnerable state? We may never know.
 

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I am sorry about the chaining/tied out thing, but we had dogs, gee everyone had dogs chained or tied in their back yard when we were kids and very few of them were aggressive. None of ours were, well Princess bit the Pizza guy, but that was because she was startled out of a sound sleep when he came running up on the porch where she and my brother were sleeping. It was a single bite which broke the skin, but not a serious GSD bite it could have been if she was seriously aggressive. Tramp bit the baby a couple of times AFTER he was hit by a pick up truck and went funny in the head -- He was a house dog, a schnauzer. Perky was outside on a chain his whole life and the only time he ever even growled was when someone was stealing one of the bikes from the garage.

I know that when a guard dog is tied to something they are probably guarding it. But most dogs are not more aggressive on chains. It is possible that dogs are less solid now adays than they used to be. I don't know. I do not think a dog should be given a free pass if he aggresses because he was once tied or chained. This dog got loose and attacked family members. A dog on a chain is stuck see, and they know it. Dogs like people have two choices when they are terrified: fight or flight. Chained dogs know that flight is not a possiblity. Once a dog is loose though, to go after someone is serious aggression.

I think that the main problem here was that the dog was too much dog for the people. The people rather than train and socialize the dog, probably wanted a "bad" dog, because it is cool, or for protection. And when people want a dog for guarding or protection, they make the following mistakes: they do not socialize the dog for fear that the dog will not protect or guard; and they will often physically encourage the dog to aggress, whether by beating/kicking the dog, or by playing rough games like aggressive tug, always encouraging growling and persistance. Sometimes they starve the dog or feed it gunpowder to make it mean as well. Not sure if the gun powder works, but I have heard of it done. They want a dog with an edge to them, and when it backfires, the government screams for breed specific legislation.
 

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Selzer,

There have been studies done and dogs that are chained/tethered are significantly more likely to become aggressive than dogs that are not chained/tethered. That doesn't mean that *every* chained/tethered dogs is aggressive, but there is a statistically significant difference.

We can all think of exceptions to the rule, but there is a high correlation among dogs that are involved in attacks and dogs that are chained/tethered.

Also, behaviorists will tell you that chained/tethered dogs experience a lot of frustration that builds and can manifest in aggression ... and that frustration and building aggression is often not noticed because people who chain out their dogs as a primary means of containment *tend* to spend less time with them than people who keep their dogs in the house, on average.
 

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Well chaining then putting food etc outside the chain increases aggression yes. But it isn't illegal until the dog breaks loose and mauls someone.
I have one chained regularly...the only aggression in her is to a chicken leg quarter at feeding time. She is not teased, when in the yard will go over any fence and if she does she's likely to become bait for a dog fight...so of those two options....she is on a chain when outside as are a couple others. They are not aggressive and not allowed to be.

However, many have chains and teasing going hand in hand...it's not the chain it's the treatment. And when chains are banned and they're in kennels the same dogs will be the same way because the same people treat them the same way. So we then blame kennels?

People deliberately or ignorantly create these dogs and it is not in any way illegal. We all pay the price when something happens by virtue of having dogs.
 

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Unfortunately, chaining out dogs is not illegal in most jurisdictions.

Fortunately, it is in some and the number of municipalities adopting anti-tethering laws is increasing.

JanH, I don't think the frustration/aggression issue is only if the people put food outside the reach of the chained dog. A chained dog is exposed to many stimuli during his/her existence that can create frustration by being tethered. Whether its the squirrel that sits just outside the dog's reach or the kids that walk by and throw rocks at him, the dog is exposed to the stimuli and his/her range of options is limited by the chain.

As I said, we all know dogs that aren't aggressive, even if they've never been allowed off of a chain their whole lives. However, the research is clear that chained dogs are significantly more likely to develop aggression issues that lead to biting people.
 

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When all the chains are gone, they will go after my kennels. "Oooh, the poor dog is in a prison." Kids might walk by kennels and throw rocks at the dogs. My cat DELIBERATELY preens herself outside of Dubya's kennel to get his goat. Oh, the frustration, I am just waiting for the boy to come out and maul me!

While we are at it lets ban crates and fences and e-collars and prong collars, and head collars, and shucks, lets ban leashes and collars and dog ownership altogether.

There are studies that say that dogs are more aggressive if they are chained. Hmmm. You really can make any study say whatever you want the outcome to be. Statistics, studies, particularly in behaviors can be written/created to prove a hypothesis. And tomorrow another study can come out to say the exact opposite. The only thing is, there are not a lot of people who chain their dog that are willing to waste the time and money to prove that it is NOT likely to make them more aggressive.

A dog that is teased by children may aggress toward children. Leave the chain out of it.

Dogs that are starved or abused or neglected with respect to time may be more likely to bite whether or not they are chained.

Dogs can get hung up on their chain and die or they can wrap their chain up an become injured -- never had that problem myself, but I have heard of enough cases. Dogs die in a lot of ways. Collars can contribute to dog's accidental deaths. Dogs getting smooshed in the road. Dogs getting shot in the woods running deer. Dogs eating poisonous stuff. Dogs having anesthetic. Dogs being vaccinated.

Some of us do not like the idea of leaving our animals in a small box while we go to work for many hours each day. I could probably put together a study that proves that dogs left in crates for over twelve hours a day are more likely to be hyper or aggressive than dogs that are not contained. If I pick the right dogs for the study, I bet I could get the data to prove it. But in our current society, it is more acceptable to crate a dog for 12 hours than to chain a dog for 12 hours while you are working. People do not stop at the 12 hours they are at work and commuting, they generally crate the dog at night too. Some dogs are lucky to get out of their box for five or six hours a day.

A chained dog can have access to water and be able to relieve himself. He can enjoy the outdoors and watch the world go by. Where a crated dog hasn't much choice but to try to sleep away the hours until his owner gets home and lets him out. If the owner is in an accident on the way home or in a traffic jam, the dog must wait more hours before someone comes and lets him out to potty, or he must relieve himself in the crate and lay in it. I cannot see how people feel that this is more humane than connecting a dog to a chain.

If you approach a fearful dog on a chain your are more likely to get bitten than if you try to approach a fearful dog that is not chained. For one thing, the unchained dog can run away from you. The chained dog cannot. Dogs are not stupid. I do not think the dog is any more aggressive. If you corner the same fearful dog that was not chained, and approach it you are likely to get bitten too.
 

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While I agree different dogs have different tolerances, those are likely to be triggered regarding of restraint or not. How many unrestrained dogs are hit by addressing their frustration and chasing cars?

Any type of confinement is likely to frustrate high drive dogs and not the more laid back ones. I know of dogs in the back yard teased into aggression who otherwise aren't (yet) aggressive but 8-10 months later may be. I know of one not chained but in a fence yard that is aggressive at charging the fence any time anyone walks by - and this aggression would likely result in a bite if he was able to, but he's not on a chain...he's no less frustrated by the chain link fence. And there's others allowed to roam - normally unneutered and threatening anyone who comes by because they aren't confined. They'll chase cars, come at pedestrians aggressively and if you have a dog that much more so. They have half the town as their domain. I'm sure if they were confined they would be frustrated.
Herding and working breeds especially are bored out of their minds if not kept busy - but from GSD to border collies to many others they're apt to exercise frustration/aggression if confined and the issue not addressed.

Those that forbid tethering a dog equally can punish dogs that have never done anything wrong save for be confined on a chain part of the time. The dog itself is the biggest factor of to/not to chain. The same dogs that are unruly on a chain will be so behind a fence or loose - and the dogs lose as well as the rest of us via legislation and dog owners.

I have one dog that has to be chained; she is in a fenced area and will go over a fence with VERY little effort. She hurts no one - but is at risk of being fight bait, hit by cars, poisoned, etc etc when she's loose and even an accusation of wrong doing is impossible to defend if she's out of my sight. Should she be put to death if an anti-tether ordinance is enacted?

Or the GSD who by virtue of breed is likely to be taken if she's even accused of nipping someone (which she wouldn't do without serious provocation). But with some breeds accused is convicted and the GSD is one of those breeds in many areas.

With the activities here of late ANY of my dogs in their own back yard are on a chain to keep them away from the fence unless I'm standing there...anti-tethering makes that illegal and increases the danger for them to get near the fence.

I know what's held up as "normal" in aggressive/attack situations...but there's many other situations that fall into the same descriptions.
 

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JanH,

I agree with you.

However, if they enact anti-tethering laws, you should have a back-up plan. A possible solution is outdoor kennels within your fenced back yard.

I am not talking about cheap store-bought kennels -- I have looked at them and do not trust them at all. I had mine built. The last three I had done cost me $5,000.

This may sound steep but this is for three 15' by 10' kennels on a concrete base and covered over with fencing. The fencing (all save the top) was 9 gage chain link wire. The top fencing is eleven gage wire. The height is six feet. I used treated 4x4s set in concrete for the posts and 2x4s top and bottom between the 4x4s.

What I get is peace of mind. I know my dogs will be there when I get home. With a chain, there is always that possibility that the clasp will break and your dog will be MIA. Also, if you have more than one dog chained, so long as none of them fight, no problem. But if you have any animosity between them, the kennels make it easy to take them out and put them in their kennels one at a time. If the unthinkable happens and one gets out, he cannot attack anyone else.

Right now I am not chaining dogs. Not for their precious psychies, but because of the possibility of injury. I have stopped leaving collars on the dogs as well. (With a kennel license, I can get away with that in Ohio.) I find that the concrete base makes for a much cleaner dog, dogs that I can take to class and bring in and let sleep in my bed at night. Chaining is hard because, once you get home from work, the **** dog is out there on his chain, nose to tail mud.

I swear that one day I decided to chain Jazzy out front because they were working on building the kennel and I needed for them to be able to get into the back yard, where I had her temporarily stowed. (This was years ago when I was caring for my brother's bitch who wanted to kill my bitch.) Anyway, I moved a dog house out front and set up a stringer from the house to the tree in the middle of the yard so she could run back and forth. I put a water bucket out with her, and went to work. On my way to work, it started to rain. When I got home, nine hours later, it looked like Animal Cops should have been called. The bitch was covered in mud. The yard was one gigantic mud pit. the bucket was covered in mud. She was up to her hocks in mud. That was the last time someone was tethered out front. I could see myself now in front of my trailer saying, "Really, all this happened today."

That night after bathing the bitch, I went out and bought wood chips and orange plastic fencing and stakes. I set the runner up in the back behind the shed and put down 10 bricks of wood chips to manage mud. Then I fenced it around to try to impede any other critters from bothering her. This actually did work until the kennels were finished. But, what a nightmare!
 

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Yikes! 10 bags!

I hear what you're saying and agree. The main one that is chained is a coonhound - and she's on the front deck, can get off the deck in a fenced area (which she'd go right on over if not for the chain and my other half had to put it 2 sections high or she went over it anyway. She has come in the house too...but the thing is we know how appearances work. If she's out there for 2-3 hours every afternoon well gosh she's out there all the time! The others that are escape artists are chained for short periods (am talking a half hour tops) on the back deck. There's 2, mother and daughter that have escape tendencies - both were taken in because of that.

And I agree completely on the clasp etc. This coonhound has broken more chains, collars, snaps than I can count! She got underneath the mobile somehow one time and drug chain and all through then got stuck under the mobile - the chain is still under there!

I'm looking seriously at cattle panels with roofs...except the smaller dogs will wiggle right through the squares. My dad rigged one up home with poultry netting attached to it - now that would work!
But the thing is not everyone has a few hundred or thousand dollars at their disposal. When we first moved in here there was no fenced back yard - a few spots to chain to and it was a long 3 weeks before the materials came in to fence it...without a fence roaming dogs can attack a chained one and the chained one loses. A former neighbor said a couple dogs in town were killed that way.

I guess the thing that gets me about it is so many it seems to be therefore it is - and is not always the case. The "heegle" can't be chained for long - she'll get over the fence if I don't watch her but if she's out there more than 20-30 minutes she starts barking wanting in. But if someone only looked out that 20-30 minutes daily and took pictures - well she's there 24/7.

I know a few dogs around here that I wish were chained up! I think the dangers of chained dogs is more than behavioral...but also recognize that if uncommon sense is used and it's a temporary situation it's much different than the dog there 24/7 and never getting attention.

There's little danger of chains being outlawed here. They gotta catch up with the rest of the world in other ways first.
but each area is different....I don't think it's an ideal solution no. But also recognize that it's better than nothing and sometimes is a have to for several reasons.
 

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Breed bands don't work and they are not fair, too bad we can't BAN BAD OWNERS because thats the real problem Its always the owner fault
 
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